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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Spanish repertoire (Read 374888 times)
huggy
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #270 - 10/27/11 at 15:54:11
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Is there equality somewhere in the endgame of our last discussed 5.. Nf6 line (replies 199-208):
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6 Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Qxe5 d6 10.Qxf6 Bxf6 11.d3 0-0 12.Nd2N  after 12.. Rb8? 

I've spent a while looking at the positions with a computer and board (trying to practice my heavy pieces middle/endgames!!) and Black seems to achieve equality in each of the major lines:
13. Rb1 - This seems to play out into a fairly equal RB endgame after the sequence beginning with 13.. d5 14. f3 (14. b3 Bc3; 14. Nb3 c5 15. Nxc5 Bc3+) c5 15. Kd1 c4 16. dxc4 dxc4 17. Re1 Rd8 18. Ke2 c3

13. Ne4  - Black achieves counterplay on either the b-file (via a5-a4 push if b3) or e-file (if Re1) after lines following 13.. Bd4.

13. f3 -  Re8+ Kd1 followed by Rb5 looks to equalize, either regaining material equality via b2 or the d-pawn (if c3 --> Rd5).

Have looked at a few earlier move alternatives for White to 9. Qxe5 (Nxe5, d4) and 12. Nd2 (0-0) but black also seems to be doing okay. 

Huggy




  
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Markovich
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #269 - 10/25/11 at 00:45:10
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Yeah Stefan, say how.
  
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MNb
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #268 - 10/24/11 at 21:15:26
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 10/24/11 at 19:18:12:
Our line against the Jaenisch doesn't work; Black is fine.

How exactly? Apparently I misunderstood that White at least had a nice plus. If you are right I will immediately take up 3...f5 again!
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #267 - 10/24/11 at 19:18:12
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Göran wrote on 09/28/11 at 10:55:41:
In my database there are 362 games with 4.c3 (score 56,8%) and 235 games with 4.0-0 (score 57,7).
The main continuaion according to my database is 4.c3 Ba5 5.0-0 Nge7 6.Na3 see Balogh-Sedlak, HUN 2011

Perhaps White also can be more direct aiming for the e5-pawn:
4.c3      4...Be7 5.Bxc6 dxc6 6,Nxe5
     4...Ba5 5.Bxc6 dxc6 6.Nxe5 Qe7 7.d4 f6 8.Nc4 Qxe4+ 9.Ne3
                5...bxc6 6.Nxe5 Qe7 7.d4 f6 8.Nc4 Qxe4+ 9.Ne3      
     4...Ba5 5.a4 a6 6.Bxc6 bxc6 7.Nxe5 Qe7 8.d4 f6 9.Nc4 Qxe4 10.Ne3
                            6...dxc6 7.Nxe5 Qe7 8.d4 f6 9.Nc4 Qxe4 10.Nx3
     
and White semas to have a nice position in all three (five) variations.

Edit: 1e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb4 Bb5

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bb4 4.c3 Ba5 5.Qa4 Bb6 6.d4 exd4 7.cxd4 Nge7 8.d5 Nb8 9.Bf4! is +/-. Thus 3...Rb8 must be preferred, again. 

Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/22/11 at 09:57:43:
Markovich wrote on 09/02/11 at 14:23:03:
kylemeister wrote on 09/01/11 at 19:23:30:
I had the same thought re the Ponziani, and the impression that 8. Nxd4 (possible even in the Ponz version) is a serious try.


I saw this move in my data base and wasn't sure what to think about it, but I think you're right that it
deserves serious investigation. 

I might have done more, but then thought I should show some respect and await the results of this serious investigation.   Smiley

8.Nxd4 is equal in my opinion. But since we had already found a small plus for White, this isn't tragic for the repertoire. 

But there is still 3...Nf6 4.0-0 Bc5 =. 

Our line against the Jaenisch doesn't work; Black is fine.

And then there is 3...a5, of course.   

Not really a surprise, there is no lasting plus for White.
  
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Göran
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #266 - 09/29/11 at 00:04:06
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It's a pitty Vishy Anand didn't take part in developing ChessPub's Ruy Lopez, Jänisch repertoire. It seams to be his loss. We have at least +=.  Grin
  
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TN
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #265 - 09/28/11 at 22:47:23
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Here's an update of the file.
  
SpanishRepertoire_001_001.pgn ( 33 KB | Downloads )
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #264 - 09/28/11 at 17:44:42
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It's gone into hibernation for some time now. It would need some small vitamin injection.
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #263 - 09/28/11 at 14:29:38
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I just stumbled upon this project, and I love the idea!

I've read several previous pages and downloaded the "Chesspub Spanish repertoire" that TN attached. 

Is there a direction the main group is following now that could use a bit of help?  I'm not a Spanish player generally, but several of my students play it.
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #262 - 09/28/11 at 10:55:41
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In my database there are 362 games with 4.c3 (score 56,8%) and 235 games with 4.0-0 (score 57,7).
The main continuaion according to my database is 4.c3 Ba5 5.0-0 Nge7 6.Na3 see Balogh-Sedlak, HUN 2011

Perhaps White also can be more direct aiming for the e5-pawn:
4.c3      4...Be7 5.Bxc6 dxc6 6,Nxe5
     4...Ba5 5.Bxc6 dxc6 6.Nxe5 Qe7 7.d4 f6 8.Nc4 Qxe4+ 9.Ne3
                5...bxc6 6.Nxe5 Qe7 7.d4 f6 8.Nc4 Qxe4+ 9.Ne3      
     4...Ba5 5.a4 a6 6.Bxc6 bxc6 7.Nxe5 Qe7 8.d4 f6 9.Nc4 Qxe4 10.Ne3
                            6...dxc6 7.Nxe5 Qe7 8.d4 f6 9.Nc4 Qxe4 10.Nx3
     
and White semas to have a nice position in all three (five) variations.

Edit: 1e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb4 Bb5
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #261 - 09/23/11 at 18:20:25
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/24/11 at 20:16:20:
Göran wrote on 07/24/11 at 19:53:25:
What do you think about 3...Bb4

Discussed in Bernhard Lach: Spanisch - Die Alapin-Variante 1.e4 e5 2.Sf3 Sc6 3.Lb5 Lb4! from 1995

Slightly worse than 3...Rb8.

I have changed my mind. 3...Bb4 seems at least as good as 3...Rb8.
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #260 - 09/22/11 at 09:57:43
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Markovich wrote on 09/02/11 at 14:23:03:
kylemeister wrote on 09/01/11 at 19:23:30:
I had the same thought re the Ponziani, and the impression that 8. Nxd4 (possible even in the Ponz version) is a serious try.


I saw this move in my data base and wasn't sure what to think about it, but I think you're right that it
deserves serious investigation. 

I might have done more, but then thought I should show some respect and await the results of this serious investigation.   Smiley
« Last Edit: 09/22/11 at 11:01:42 by Stefan Buecker »  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #259 - 09/21/11 at 18:02:41
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Maybe a jump to a more mainstream line could reinvigorate the discussion.
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #258 - 09/21/11 at 15:43:33
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Somehow our work on this project has fallen off.
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #257 - 09/21/11 at 14:34:40
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No more ideas? Other Spanish lines, like the Bird e.g.?
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #256 - 09/02/11 at 14:23:03
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kylemeister wrote on 09/01/11 at 19:23:30:
I had the same thought re the Ponziani, and the impression that 8. Nxd4 (possible even in the Ponz version) is a serious try.


I saw this move in my data base and wasn't sure what to think about it, but I think you're right that it
deserves serious investigation.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
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