ChessPub Forum - Spanish repertoire

Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #330 - 11/30/11 at 01:58:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	But seriously, tbis isn't about huggy, but about what Chess Truth is after 9.Nxe5.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #329 - 11/29/11 at 01:36:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yeah, I saw huggy's post a while back and wondered what he was talking about.

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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #328 - 11/28/11 at 21:12:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	PANFR wrote on 11/28/11 at 13:45:37: The Jaenisch is a bad opening. Black cannot play for a win... I have played the Black side quite a bit, and as white I would pick 4.d3. Radjabov's treatment after 4.Nc3 is absolutely safe for Black- the fact that noone of the chess elite has managed to win against him is the best proof one can fetch. I was under the impression that Radjabov had mainly played the line bxc6 in speed chess. Or am I wrong? Anyway, it may be a hint that bxc6 at least has some value. Markovich wrote on 11/28/11 at 15:30:18: Would someone explain for my benefit why 5...Nf6 6.Nxf6+ Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Nxe5 is supposed to be O.K. for Black? In my data base, it scores well for White. Fortunately, this problem had already been solved by "Huggy" a while ago (post #270), viz: huggy wrote on 10/27/11 at 15:54:11: Have looked at a few earlier move alternatives for White to 9. Qxe5 (Nxe5, d4) and 12. Nd2 (0-0) but black also seems to be doing okay. - Huggy So what's the solution? Huggy? Huggy?


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #327 - 11/28/11 at 15:30:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	Would someone explain for my benefit why 5...Nf6 6.Nxf6+ Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Nxe5 is supposed to be O.K. for Black? In my data base, it scores well for White. 9...O-O 10.O-O Qe6 11.Re1 Bc5 12.Nf3 Qxe2 13.Rxe2 d6 was played in Efimenko - Naiditsch, Mukachevo 2010. Here 14.d3 Bg4 was played, resulting in a draw. But 14.d4, as played in six games in my db of which White won four and drew one (I exclude a seventh game where a draw was immediately agreed), looks like a much more obvious and better move to me. 14...Bb6 15.c3 and so forth. Why 14.d3, with seeming concern for the light squares, when Black's plans to exchange his light-square B on f3 anyway?
	« Last Edit: 11/28/11 at 16:49:35 by Markovich »
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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #326 - 11/28/11 at 15:25:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	Chess is a very easy game, it would seem.

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PANFR Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 256 Location: Greece Joined: 10/31/11 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #325 - 11/28/11 at 13:45:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	The Jaenisch is a bad opening. Black cannot play for a win... I have played the Black side quite a bit, and as white I would pick 4.d3. Radjabov's treatment after 4.Nc3 is absolutely safe for Black- the fact that noone of the chess elite has managed to win against him is the best proof one can fetch.


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #324 - 11/28/11 at 06:53:00	Post Tools	Print Post
	Markovich wrote on 11/28/11 at 01:20:30: Well I'm a monkey's uncle if 4.Nc3 isn't the best move. A year ago I was convinced that 4.d3 was the only way to achieve an advantage against the Jaenisch. Now I think both 4.Nc3 and 4.d3 are equivalent - a little better for White, but Black has no problems.

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #323 - 11/28/11 at 01:20:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well I'm a monkey's uncle if 4.Nc3 isn't the best move.

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #322 - 11/28/11 at 01:18:36	Post Tools	Print Post
	The same can be said of 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Qe2 d5 7.Nxf6+.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #321 - 11/27/11 at 22:40:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	What do you guys think of trying to find an edge for White against 3...f5 4.d3 fe4 5.de4 Nf6 6.0-0 Bc5 7.Qd3 Nd4 (or 7.Qe2 Nd4)? In my opinion all of Black's alternative responses to 4.d3 are +=, so if we can find something here, then the theoretical problem of the Jaenisch may be solved.

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Stefan Buecker

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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #320 - 11/22/11 at 22:31:32

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1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6 Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Qxe5 d6 10.Qxf6 Bxf6 11.d3 0-0 12.Nd2 d5 13.Rb1.

Alternatives:

(a) 13.Kd1 c5 14.Rb1 c4! 15.dxc4 dxc4 16.Nxc4 Ba6 comp.

(b) 13.f3 may be best.

13...c5 14.b3 Bd7

Michael Ayton wrote on 11/03/11 at 21:00:22:

I've only just now seen the earlier parts of this thread, and noticed that Stefan had already (#199) considered 12 ...d5 13 Rb1 c5 14 b3, giving here 14 ...Bd7 15 Kd1 Rae8 16 f3 as good for White. I guess 14 ...Bf5 15 f3 Rae8 16 Kd1 Be5 is a logical enough attempt to improve ...

Michael Ayton's 14...Bf5 is interesting. But 14...Bd7 is just as logical (supports a5-a4), and in the meantime I found an improvement upon my older line:

15.Kd1 Be7! (more precise than 15...Rae8) 16.f3 Bd6. Black's pieces are well placed, working on both flanks:

17.Ba3 a5 18.Re1 Rfe8 19.Rxe8+ Rxe8 20.Nf1 a4 21.bxa4

Or 21. g3 axb3 22.axb3 Bh3 23.Nd2 h5 22.Bc1 h4 =.

21...Bxa4 22.d4 cxd4 23.Bxd6 d3 24.Kd2 dxc2 25.Rc1 cxd6 26.Ne3 d4 27.Nxc2 Rb8 28.a3 Rb2 29.Kd3 Ra2 =.

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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #319 - 11/21/11 at 19:06:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	[b]1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6 Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Qxe5 d6 10.Qxf6 Bxf6 11.d3 0-0 12.Nd2 d5.[/b] Indeed, this seems critical. Interesting to see Michael Ayton and Markovich studying [b]13.Nb3,[/b] a move which I had ignored. [fen]r1b2rk1/p1p3pp/2p2b2/3p4/8/1N1P4/PPP2PPP/R1B1K2R[/fen] [quote author=4C4F4543220 link=1311509071/302#302 date=1320354022]I was going to go 13 ...c5 here till a computer pointed out 13 ...a5!?. It continued rather interestingly!: 14 a4 c5 15 Nc5 Re8!? 16 Kf1 Rb8 17 h3 (17 Nb3? Bf5; 17 Rb1? Bd4 18 Be3 [18 Nb3 Rb3!] Re3; 17 Ra2? Rb6 threat ...Rc6) Bb2, with, presumably, rough equality ...[/quote] ...plus more analysis, also 13...Bd7 by Markovich. But including the pair of moves a4/a5 isn't always desirable, since the pawn a5 can become a target (for Nb3 and Bd2). So the alternative 13...c5 is well worth a look. Or perhaps not, since 13...c5 14.Nxc5 Re8+ 15.Kf1! (15.Kd1?! Bd4 16.Nb3 Bxf2 17.h3 Rf8 comp.) seems okay for White. However, cannot Black play [b]13...Re8+ [/b]and reduce White's options? (a) 14.Kd2 a5 15.a4 c5 (b) 14.Kd1 and only now 14...c5! 15.Nxc5 Bd4 and so on (comp.) (c) 14.Kf1 a5! 15.a4 Bf5 16.h3 h5 (or Rb8), Black has full compensation.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #318 - 11/11/11 at 09:53:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	Zatara wrote on 11/11/11 at 06:25:56: is this the way to a good advantage for white??? Yes, unless Black has improvements on Suetin-Zinn, Berlin 1965, Kondratjev-Lublinsky, Moscow 1968 and/or Gildezetdinov-Lublinsky, corr 1968. I don't see why the Bishop would be better on b4 than on c5.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Zatara Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 422 Location: Virginia Joined: 02/26/08 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #317 - 11/11/11 at 06:25:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	SOOO Radjabov continues to push the schielmann envulope.... Anyway, I was studying Nigel Davies book gambit 2. My question is after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.exf5 (said to be strongest by Davies)is this the way to a good advantage for white??? Black does seem to develop quickly... thanks, Zatara


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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1976 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: Spanish repertoire Reply #316 - 11/10/11 at 18:16:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks for this interesting take on things, Stefan, and good luck with the move! I too will return to this I'm sure, but right now I have to get rid of a nasty bug, which is afflicting half the UK population it seems ...


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