Stefan Buecker wrote on 08/03/12 at 08:06:45:


How about 
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bb4 4.c3 Ba5 5.Qa4 Nge7!?

I think white is better, but black is not lost yet.

Ametanoitos wrote on 08/02/12 at 00:46:19:

‘fraid so 

Stefan Buecker wrote on 08/02/12 at 08:28:03:

You mean…

Stefan Buecker wrote on 10/24/11 at 19:18:12:

I am sure you are right….although two articles I have by Gerard Welling would tend to suggest there is scope for some investigation (and or improvement) on what you have given.

Hadron wrote on 08/01/12 at 22:52:42:

See reply #267.

Ametanoitos, your Marshall recommendation is excellent. Of course a draw should still be possible, but it is a hard nut.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/23/11 at 18:20:25:

Really? Alapin's Attack is perfectly playable.

Vass wrote on 08/01/12 at 15:45:38:


Actually I agree with this. For the purpose of this thread it doesn´t make so much sense trying to analyse anything until a definite conclusion can be made.

15.Re4 g5 16.Qf1 looks like a decent choice for White and it´s fair to conclude it is somewhere between += and =.

The next line of interest to me is 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 Bb7 instead of 11... c6.

Then critical looks 12.Qf3 Bd6 13.Bxd5 (not 13.Rxd5? Re8!) c6 14.Re2 cxd5 15.d4 Qc7 16.g3, but despite the good practical results for White Black seems to have decent play with 16... Rae8 17.Nd2 b4 18.cxb4 Qc2 as in Anand-Short, Manila 1992.

So probably 12.d4 should be played when both 12... Qd7 and 12... Bf6 are good moves to my limited knowledge. I haven´t looked any further yet.

Is there a way to a slight advantage for White?

So, everybody agreed to start with Marshall, but now that something challenging was presented we have silence? (except of course from Fllg's helpfull comments)

16. Qf1 Qxf1+ 17. Kxf1 Bf5 18. Nd2 Rad8 19. f3 Bxe4 20. fxe4 Nc7 21. a4! is Vigorito's main line and this is better for White. You can call it unclear, and definately in practice all 3 results are possible in sub-GM level, but i cannot but feel more comfortable with White.

After 17.f3 Bh3 18.Qf2 Qg6!?N i cannot disagree with your (excellent as it seems) "human eye" and indeed the variation you give is promising for Black (i think). Without deep analysis i cannot say something with confidence, but when i reached this position after inserting the moves in my PC, i tried the move 19.a4. I thought that Black threatens nothing at present and i don't really know if i need the Knight at d2 yet. Maybe Re2+Bc2 is an idea, i don't know. In any case Houdini gave 19...b4 20.c4 and now i investigated 20...Nf4 a bit. After some trial and error, i found that 21.c5! Nd3 22.Qc2 Nxc1 23.Qxc1 is in White's favour. So, yes, sorry if i underestimated the 17...Bh3 move but still i haven't seen any problems for White.

-> 17.f3 Bh3 18.Qf2 is +/=

-> 16...Qh6?! was Pavlovic's recommendation which is met strongly by 17.Re1! Kh8 (given by Pavlovic) 18.Bxd5! (18.c4 is good as well) 18...cxd5 19.Qg2 Bb7 (and not 19...Be6 because of 20.h4! After 19...Bb7 20.h4?! is met by 20...Rae8! with enough play for Black, i think) 20.Nd2 f5 21.Nf3 f4 and now 22.Bd2 is the simplest with an undisputed advantage for White.

Note that 16...Qh5 17.Re1? is bad due to 17...Bh3! but after 16...Qh6?! 17.Re1 Bh3? is met by 18.Bxg5!

As for 16...Qxf1 i always thought that it was considered "+/=" anyway. Anyone else has a different opinion? 

Time to move on?