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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Openings that you would never play (Read 56461 times)
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #40 - 08/08/11 at 19:25:06
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So what does it say about me that I've actually played half the openings mentioned in this thread?

As to the original question, I have no answer. There are some things I can't imagine myself ever trying, like the Bongcloud Opening, but I could imagine myself maybe trying even the silly stuff once in a casual game just to see what happens. I just can't imagine ever ruling out any possible opening and saying that I'll never play it.

  

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BPaulsen
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #39 - 08/08/11 at 18:48:46
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TN wrote on 08/08/11 at 18:39:38:
The list of openings that you would never play is a reflection of the limitations of your playing style and chess culture. 

That said, I would never intentionally play bad moves in a tournament game.


Which is exactly why I wrote earlier I wouldn't play anything that sucks.

If it doesn't suck, I'll play it.
  

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TN
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #38 - 08/08/11 at 18:39:38
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The list of openings that you would never play is a reflection of the limitations of your playing style and chess culture. 

That said, I would never intentionally play bad moves in a tournament game.
  

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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #37 - 08/08/11 at 18:32:24
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I have always loathed the idea of playing the gruenfeld with black as I disliked the strong white centre. However last year I forced myself to start playing it to improve my chess understanding and now it is my main weapon against d4. As a result of this experience I think I would venture any sound opening at least once or twice.
  
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Uhohspaghettio
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #36 - 08/08/11 at 18:10:14
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Jupp53 wrote on 08/08/11 at 17:07:16:
It's a question of understanding. Euwe wrote explicitely as first of several world champions that a chess player must follow the development of the game in his chess education. (Does anyone know what Steinitz said about this when christianizing him a "Gambittrommler" in his beginnings?).

This leads to the open games and excludes the rest.

And what's about the open sicilian: I follow here Bent Larssen (and some other strong players) reasoning about d2-d4 as a mistake against the sicilian if it's not properly prepared.

Some love the open sicilian and that's all right imo. When playing the open sicilian with white I would expect a = or =+ position in the long run. Statistically it's a solid opening. But exchanging a center pawn against a wing pawn and making the Nd4 to an object for a lot of black attacking patterns - can this be right???? For me it's too confusing.


The Nd4 is in a powerful position, much more than Nf3. It can only be attacked straightaway by e5 which is slightly weakening for black. The centre is generally the most powerful place for knights (or any piece), it's just that usually it's hard to keep them there. 

The point of having central pawns is to control central squares. In the closed Sicilian you give up the d4 square, in the open you control it. So it seems to me like the open sicilian is the more principled choice.

You need to know it well to get good results but this goes for any sharp opening that a lot of people know very well. 
  
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Jupp53
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #35 - 08/08/11 at 17:07:16
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It's a question of understanding. Euwe wrote explicitely as first of several world champions that a chess player must follow the development of the game in his chess education. (Does anyone know what Steinitz said about this when christianizing him a "Gambittrommler" in his beginnings?).

This leads to the open games and excludes the rest.

And what's about the open sicilian: I follow here Bent Larssen (and some other strong players) reasoning about d2-d4 as a mistake against the sicilian if it's not properly prepared.

Some love the open sicilian and that's all right imo. When playing the open sicilian with white I would expect a = or =+ position in the long run. Statistically it's a solid opening. But exchanging a center pawn against a wing pawn and making the Nd4 to an object for a lot of black attacking patterns - can this be right???? For me it's too confusing.
  

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fling
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #34 - 08/07/11 at 15:48:39
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MNb wrote on 08/07/11 at 12:16:00:
Jupp53 wrote on 08/07/11 at 12:03:32:
If you want to get better some openings aren't good for you.

I maintain that the Open Sicilian as White is.


Also, I would say you should play sound openings to get better. That is why I don't understand why 1.d4, 1.c4 or Open Sicilians would not be good openings even if you are less than 2200 in rating.

Or a Sicilian or French as Black for that matter.
  
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MNb
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #33 - 08/07/11 at 12:16:00
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Jupp53 wrote on 08/07/11 at 12:03:32:
If you want to get better some openings aren't good for you.

I maintain that the Open Sicilian as White is.
  

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Jupp53
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #32 - 08/07/11 at 12:03:32
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fling wrote on 08/07/11 at 10:23:15:
Jupp53 wrote on 08/07/11 at 09:23:20:

I'm simply too weak for that stuff.  Lips Sealed


Sorry, but I don't get the point, really.


Look in this forum to the topics about the repertoires in context of getting a better player. If you want to get better some openings aren't good for you.
  

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fling
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #31 - 08/07/11 at 10:23:15
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Jupp53 wrote on 08/07/11 at 09:23:20:

I'm simply too weak for that stuff.  Lips Sealed


Sorry, but I don't get the point, really.
  
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Jupp53
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #30 - 08/07/11 at 09:23:20
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Till I reach 2200+ FIDE in tournament games (in 5 min games I play everything)
- as white:
1.c4
1.d4
1.Nf3
1.g3
Any open sicilian

- as black
any fianchetto opening
any asymmetric against 1.e4 and 1.d4

I'm simply too weak for that stuff.  Lips Sealed
  

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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #29 - 08/07/11 at 02:37:39
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MNb wrote on 08/06/11 at 21:51:02:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/06/11 at 20:59:24:
A player who says they'll never play main-line opening "X" will probably start thinking about that opening more and eventually play it!

That happened to me quite often indeed. But hey, shouldn't we make a risky statement here (just for fun) and possibly have to swallow it within 20 years iso bringing up the obvious, like "I never would play the Elephant Gambit"?
So guys, show some courage and name something mainstream, I challenge you.

Anyhow, before I begin to play a new opening I need a lot more than just a video (I dislike chessvideo's) and internet-blitzgames (I hate blitz). Trw comes a lot closer.


Okay, here is a list of mainstream stuff I will probably never ever play in a serious game.

As White:
-Anything besides 1.e4, 1.d4 or 1.Nf3.
-Anti-sicilians
-Exchange vs. Slav, French, or Caro-kann
-Anything other than mainline Ruy or mainline scotch after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6
-Anything other than 3.Nc3 vs. the french
-QGD exchange with Nf3 rather than Nge2
-Four pawns attack vs. Alekhine's defence
-d-pawn systems (london, colle, etc)

As Black:
-QGD orthodox
-Scandinavian
-Petroff
-Philidor
-Ruy lopez 3rd moves other than 3...a6 or 3...Nf6
-Ruy Lopez Marshall attack
-Dragon sicilians (all of them)
-Queen's Indian defence
-Benko gambit
-Benoni's other then the modern benoni
-French with 3...dxe4
-Kalashnikov sicilian
-Classical sicilian
-Budapest gambit
-Albin counter gambit
-Tarrasch QGD
-Chigorin QGD
-Najdorf Poisoned pawn
-Classical dutch
-Najdorf Polugaevsky variation
-QGA
-Open ruy lopez
-Armenian variation of the Winawer
-four knights sicilian

I consider all of the above to be mainstream; though some lines mentioned are much more 'mainstream' than others. I wonder how many of these I will end up playing in the future? Right now I see no reason to play any of them, even in online blitz. 

  
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MNb
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #28 - 08/06/11 at 21:51:02
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/06/11 at 20:59:24:
A player who says they'll never play main-line opening "X" will probably start thinking about that opening more and eventually play it!

That happened to me quite often indeed. But hey, shouldn't we make a risky statement here (just for fun) and possibly have to swallow it within 20 years iso bringing up the obvious, like "I never would play the Elephant Gambit"?
So guys, show some courage and name something mainstream, I challenge you.

Anyhow, before I begin to play a new opening I need a lot more than just a video (I dislike chessvideo's) and internet-blitzgames (I hate blitz). Trw comes a lot closer.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #27 - 08/06/11 at 20:59:24
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I think there's a bit of psychology at work here. 

A player who says they'll never play main-line opening "X" will probably start thinking about that opening more and eventually play it! This will probably be especially true for correspondence players who have tremendous tools available to play even the most complex openings.
  
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Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #26 - 08/06/11 at 20:19:04
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This question is easier for people with a fixed taste and repertoire. I play all kinds of stuff to be unpredictable, and who knows what I'll do in the future?!

6 years ago I wowed that I would never play the Caro-Kann or the Grünfeld. My thoughts then were that the CK was just a boring drawing attempt and the Grünfeld so theoretical that it would have to be my sole defence to 1.d4, and I wanted more variety. Since then I've played the Grünfeld maybe 10 times in tournament play; I like many of the positions I got but I still think it's too theoretical so I gave it up again! And now I've come to appreciate the value of a solid backup defence, so I'm seriously considering taking up the Caro-Kann! If so I would probably include some offbeat lines to begin with, to reduce the memory load.

Current list:

- dubious gambits, especially with White (I value the advantage of the White pieces too much for that)
- the Exchange Slav (W)
- the Closed Sicilian (W)
- the Grünfeld (B) once again!
- the Benkö Gambit (B) - White seems to have several good tries for advantage atm
- the Petroff (B)
- the French with 3...dxe4 (B)
- the Open Ruy Lopez (B) - Why accept a position with such serious weaknesses and then hope for a draw in some long theory line? Not my idea of fun.
- the Sveshnikov Sicilian (B) - For much the same reasons as the Open Ruy.
- the RL Marshall Attack (B) - Too much theory while still basically playing only for a draw. Maybe I'll reconsider this when i reach 2600 Smiley
- the Queen's Indian (B)
- the Chigorin Queen's Gambit (B) - Too many bad losses with this years ago as a junior; besides I've become a fan of the bishop pair over the years
- the Symmetrical English, especially the Black side
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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