Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Openings that you would never play (Read 56392 times)
ahammel
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 18
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 04/04/11
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #100 - 11/06/11 at 18:56:32
Post Tools
rukh wrote on 11/06/11 at 12:18:27:
ahammel wrote on 10/25/11 at 17:42:22:

The Hammerschlag (aka the Fried Fox, aka the Pork Chop) is 1. f3 2. Kf2. I faced it in a skittles game recently, won five pawns for the exchange and was promptly checkmated.


The player I mentioned (over 2300) also tried the Hammerschlag in the same tournament, but that time he lost quickly.


Good.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rukh
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 63
Location: Finland
Joined: 08/27/09
Gender: Male
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #99 - 11/06/11 at 12:18:27
Post Tools
ahammel wrote on 10/25/11 at 17:42:22:

The Hammerschlag (aka the Fried Fox, aka the Pork Chop) is 1. f3 2. Kf2. I faced it in a skittles game recently, won five pawns for the exchange and was promptly checkmated.


The player I mentioned (over 2300) also tried the Hammerschlag in the same tournament, but that time he lost quickly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahammel
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 18
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 04/04/11
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #98 - 10/25/11 at 17:42:22
Post Tools
ChessMonkey wrote on 10/25/11 at 17:37:03:
ahammel wrote on 10/24/11 at 17:34:22:
. . . (as in the transvestite or Hammerschlag).


The "transvestite or Hammerschlag", seriously, are those real openings???



For certain values of "real". The Transvestite (as was explained earlier in this thread) occurs when one side or the other exchanges the positions of the King and Queen (e.g. 1. e3 2. Ke2 3. Qe1 4. Kd1).   

The Hammerschlag (aka the Fried Fox, aka the Pork Chop) is 1. f3 2. Kf2. I faced it in a skittles game recently, won five pawns for the exchange and was promptly checkmated.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ChessMonkey
Full Member
***
Offline


You may ask yourself,
well, how did I get here?

Posts: 110
Location: NYC
Joined: 04/10/08
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #97 - 10/25/11 at 17:37:03
Post Tools
ahammel wrote on 10/24/11 at 17:34:22:
. . . (as in the transvestite or Hammerschlag).


The "transvestite or Hammerschlag", seriously, are those real openings???
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #96 - 10/25/11 at 16:30:07
Post Tools
I've seen 1 h4 work brilliantly - and slightly amusingly - vs a 1 g3/g6 addict. They didn't play 1 .. g6 of course, but they did then shortly contrive to get their light squared bishop trapped on g6 by the h pawn Smiley

Not recommended though!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahammel
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 18
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 04/04/11
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #95 - 10/25/11 at 14:54:33
Post Tools
SWJediknight wrote on 10/25/11 at 10:09:41:
I imagine that 1.h4 could work against some players who play mechanically, for example 1.h4 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 transposes to a line of the Pirc Defence (objectively Black can of course improve on this by aiming for lines where h2-h4 isn't very useful).


But if they're going to play that mechanically, you could get the same position by playing 1. e4 (or 1. d4, in fact) with the added benefit that the deviations don't suck for white.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zwischenzugzwang
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing
& chess pubs!

Posts: 380
Location: Zotzenbach
Joined: 06/14/11
Gender: Male
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #94 - 10/25/11 at 11:41:30
Post Tools
It might be only sub-wise to answer 1.h4 with 2...g6.  Huh
  

What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 916
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #93 - 10/25/11 at 10:09:41
Post Tools
I imagine that 1.h4 could work against some players who play mechanically, for example 1.h4 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 transposes to a line of the Pirc Defence (objectively Black can of course improve on this by aiming for lines where h2-h4 isn't very useful).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rukh
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 63
Location: Finland
Joined: 08/27/09
Gender: Male
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #92 - 10/24/11 at 19:27:16
Post Tools
ahammel wrote on 10/24/11 at 17:34:22:
I would never move my a- or h-pawn on my first move. Nor would I spend that moving developing a knight to the a- or h- file, nor would I try any silly king maneuvers (as in the transvestite or Hammerschlag).

I have this principle not because these openings are bad (although they are, of course) but because I consider it impolite to play them. If you're stronger than your opponent, the only point of something like 1. h4 is to humiliate him or her, and if you're equal or weaker you should show respect for your opponent by playing as well as you can.


A certain young player actually played two games with 1...h6 and 2...a5 at the latest Finnish Championship, and won both as black. One of the victims was a former champion... he didn't get a good score in that tournament, so I guess he was upset.  Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahammel
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 18
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 04/04/11
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #91 - 10/24/11 at 17:34:22
Post Tools
I would never move my a- or h-pawn on my first move. Nor would I spend that moving developing a knight to the a- or h- file, nor would I try any silly king maneuvers (as in the transvestite or Hammerschlag).

I have this principle not because these openings are bad (although they are, of course) but because I consider it impolite to play them. If you're stronger than your opponent, the only point of something like 1. h4 is to humiliate him or her, and if you're equal or weaker you should show respect for your opponent by playing as well as you can.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mark Stephenson
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Warning: Total Newbie
on Board!

Posts: 3
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Joined: 06/09/11
Gender: Male
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #90 - 08/11/11 at 21:02:30
Post Tools
For me, the answer depends entirely on the circumstances. In correspondence, I would never play any dicey opening that depends on my opponent not knowing the best replies, since he or she will have access to every book, blog, forum, and database available. In blitz, I will try almost anything. And in classical, I may choose an opening that I ordinarily wouldn't play, if I know that it will really annoy my opponent. For example, as White, I will only play a KID exchange variation against a fire-breathing opponent who hates that.  Cool
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
God Member
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #89 - 08/11/11 at 13:31:03
Post Tools
You'll get PM. Nothing to discuss here.
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #88 - 08/11/11 at 12:52:25
Post Tools
Jupp53 wrote on 08/11/11 at 06:44:51:


In younger days this kind of arguing made me angry and desperate, today only desperate. You're turning my reasoning into something else never said by me and state then you're right.

What I find frustrating is that you have decided to edit a previous post and then make an ad hominem attack against me.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #87 - 08/11/11 at 09:43:31
Post Tools
Jupp53 wrote on 08/11/11 at 06:44:51:

@fling
Quote:
I think you are underestimating dynamic play, ...
This may be. But I fear more the gap is basic tactics and that's why it doesn't come to the question if I underestimate dynamics.


Well, I kinda figured you meant playing open positions, not the Open games. Tactics really is the basis for chess. But you can and should learn this in many types of positions. Especially those two-three move manoeuvres based on tactics that improve your position. Dynamic play is a lot about tactics.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
God Member
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Openings that you would never play
Reply #86 - 08/11/11 at 06:44:51
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/10/11 at 22:23:20:
Just a minor point: the second diagram comes from the Rossolimo variation, which is a well-tested option only available to white after 2...d6. White's play in that line is very similar to an Open Sicilian. In fact, by the time the second diagram has arisen, the position is "open".

So I don't see these two diagrams as an effective argument in favor of playing closed Sicilians over open ones.

In younger days this kind of arguing made me angry and desperate, today only desperate. You're turning my reasoning into something else never said by me and state then you're right.

To be honest: You're not serious and offending for two reasons. You're taking my argument as if I would confound things not belonging together and in a way that you must think I'm stupid.

1. Anti-Sicilians and closed sicilians is not the same. You're drivel confound this. 2. An 'open' position can arise from all openings. Making out of this an argument for 'open' sicilians and against this Moscow line maybe your level on a bad day only I hope.

You may think this way! That's all right. But don't abuse my arguments by citing them and talking then about a completely different point (than blunder probability in this case) in an incompetent manner (open position = open sicilian). Argue in such a case without behaving as you would discuss with me.

You're point is to play the open sicilians to reach open position iiuc. O.K. But if you reach them by an anti-sicilian repertoire as well that's a weak argument.

@Stigma:
Quote:
Second, I don't agree that White "must be prepared to sacrifice a pawn for attacking chances in the Bb5 sicilians"; at least not based on this line. White could have deviated with 5.c4 (most common on higher levels, but often very dry), 6.Qe2 (as in Jones' recent book) or 7.Re1. The first two of these are probably more serious tries for advantage than 6.c3 Nf6 7.d4.

You're right about the lines. But that's something different as meant by me. And even after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5 Bd7 4.Bxd7 Qxd7 5.c4 white is offering a pawn. 5. .. Qg4 is winning a pawn for black. (This is not recommending this move. The white position after 6.0-0 Qxe4 7.d4 is very good.)

@fling
Quote:
I think you are underestimating dynamic play, ...
This may be. But I fear more the gap is basic tactics and that's why it doesn't come to the question if I underestimate dynamics.
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo