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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) People spend too much time studying openings. (Read 9855 times)
Jupp53
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #18 - 09/01/11 at 09:14:23
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+1

from someone preferring to study tactics and endgames. Chess is for fun.
  

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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #17 - 09/01/11 at 03:01:09
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One assumption of those berating others who study openings seems to be that the only appropriate form of chess is OTB live chess. 

I'm mostly retired from OTB live chess and focus quite a  bit of energy on the openings now. I enjoy the search for absolute truth in the opening, knowing that it's ultimately futile. 

I am not about to be so arrogant as to suggest that others spend too much time studying the opening without knowing the motives and cues for such passions.

Markovich is right, there are many class players who study a tremendous amount of opening theory without spending the requisite amount of energy and study on middlegames and endgames. The solution could be that they continue to study the openings, but allocate more of their leisure time to other aspects of the game.

This site encourages the opening specialist to feed his or her favorite pasttime. I don't see anything inherently wrong with people studying the opening, especially if their studies lead them to investigate complex middlegames and endgames that result from those openings!

As someone once said, study what interests you!
  
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #16 - 09/01/11 at 01:41:44
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 08/31/11 at 10:39:45:
The reason people focus on openings is the quick gain

No. The reason I focus on openings is that I enjoy it, way more than studying middle game and endgame (that used to be different 25 years ago). I don't give a d**n that it hurts my so called chess development. To make things worse, these days I only study and analyze those lines I feel like.
This might be the case for more people than Alias and you'd think. Like some others already indicated, such people are the ones you can expect on an opening forum.
  

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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #15 - 08/31/11 at 19:56:46
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 08/31/11 at 10:39:45:
People spend too much time studying openings. I am no exception.


Which people? 

Quote:
This forum shows this clearly with loads of groups on all different types of openings, one on general chess, and one on endgames.


ChessPub.com: Discussion forum for ChessPublishing.com, the opening theory site. A pretty good forum too.

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The endgame is obviously neglected by lots of players with explanations like "I don't get endgames". Basically this is nonsense.


The endgame may be neglected, but I find that the more you know about endgames, the more likely you are to say 'I don't know' when you are given an endgame position that isn't a book draw or win! Someone who says they 'don't get endgames' is surely better off than someone who has not tried to understand endgames at all. 

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People who think this should study their own games: a lot are decided in the endgame, and good knowledge and skills can make a half point or even a whole point difference here.    


Yes, a lot of games are decided in the endgame, but this is due primarily to errors in calculation rather than a lack of theoretical knowledge. Also, with modern time controls, both players are often short of time by the time the endgame arises, making it much more difficult to recall specific theoretical knowledge. Then again, all of this depends on the level of the players: if you look at games between <1000 players, the vast majority of games will be decided in the opening and middlegame because the 'endgames' will rarely have equal material. 

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And then there's the middle game. 

Take tactics to start with. Most chess games are decided by tactics. It is not too difficult to get better at tactics by putting some serious work into this. You might be able to finish off your opponent when you're better, and you might avoid losing by a blunder / tactical oversight. A related topic is calculating variations. 
I am now putting a lot of work into trying to improve my tactics because I know it's a weakness of me and it costs me points.


This advice is hardly original, but I agree with it. Once you get past the 'whoever puts the least pieces en prise and doesn't get mated wins' phase, tactics will play a decisive role in many of your games. 

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Being or becoming good at strategy (postional play) is obviously essential as well. 

I'd say the two essential differences between a GM and an amateur are (a) GMs are better at calculating variations; (b) GMs are better at the endgame.   


The three differences between GMs and non-GMs are that a) GM's usually calculate more accurately and quickly than non-GMs b) GMs usually understand the position better than non-GMs c) GMs have put more work in than equally talented non-GMs.

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It's hard work to become better at this lot though, and if you read lots of books the results (the gain) may not be obvious.


That's because one usually learns better by learning actively (analysing the position themselves, playing practice games, analysing with a coach/trainer) than passively (reading from a book, copying computer variations). However you need to do some passive learning before you can fully benefit from the active learning, at least in the opening phase. 

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You may feel you've spend a real lot of time, gained nothing and made no progress. The reason people focus on openings is the quick gain - you can throw your opening novely straight at your opponent if you're so lucky they allow it. But it's hard work and difficult to become a better player rather than one who knows lots of opening tricks.


What level of player are you referring to? Below 2400 you are not going to get your novelty on the board unless it is arises very early, and in that case it is quite likely that your novelty is not very good. In the end what determines your level of improvement from opening study are how effectively/efficiently you study and what rating you are. 

Calling someone who studies openings a lot 'one who knows lots of opening tricks' is not appropriate since that is just one (and not a very good) way of studying the opening. I can study the opening by looking at typical endgames from the opening, annotating model games of the old and modern masters myself, analysing my games, discussing critical positions with another person, or playing 'Solitaire Chess' (guessing the moves played in a game). It's quite likely that this study, done properly, would improve my play in all phases of the game. 

  

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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #14 - 08/31/11 at 19:52:17
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Well firstly we're in this for fun no? So as long we're enjoying whatever we're doing its not wrong in any sense Smiley

There's also a huge difference between studying opening theory in terms of learning it and actually analysing the lines, positions (middlegames often) coming out of it etc.

cf not getting endings, its not such an absurd claim if taken right. Now studying technical endings is no doubt very good (and hard!) tactics training. But the times where the specific knowledge really helps much less common.

The big win is almost certainly cultivating a mind set which is happy calmly playing out long games and not making bad mistakes during that time. Thats hugely useful but no idea how you gain it.

Its certainly something I could do with more of Smiley
  
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #13 - 08/31/11 at 19:40:17
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Uhohspaghettio wrote on 08/31/11 at 17:22:08:


I think people spend too much time making generalized statements on message boards, aphorisms here and there, without thought that human behaviour and chess learning is a lot more complex than that.


Ahem.
  

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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #12 - 08/31/11 at 18:35:56
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I found the following two extracts quite impressive; they also quite well illustrate my point of view:

Quote:
Chess is about playing the best moves. The opening is only a chronological stage in the game. If you aren't in the habit of searching for the best moves there, your experiences in the opening aren't helping you to develop as a player.
Then there's the aesthetic side. Much of what draws us to chess is the search for that little bit of truth. The ultimate question about the game is: can White win? And assuming he can't, how can he pose the most sustained and complex difficulties for Black (...)? These openings [covered in the book this quote is from, see below - Zzz] are humanity's best guess at answering that question; if you don't want to know something about the process and maybe even help in some small way towards resolving it, I think you're missing out on part of our game.
(John Cox, Starting Out 1d4!, Everyman 2006, p. 9, my marking)

And the other:

Quote:
Anyone with even the slightest intellectual bent of mind (and which chess-player isn't?) may find getting to know a little bit about opening theory very interesting. Even without any ambition to improve your results and independent of your level of play, you may simply find the study of openings enjoyable. (...) This sheer fun is in my view an essential element of studying opening theory.
(Paul van der Sterren, FCO, Gambit 2009, p. 7, my marking)

So if one only wants to improve ones rating, then there might be better ways to go than studying openings. But, as Uhohspaghettio said,
Quote:
human behaviour (...) is a lot more complex than that.


Best regards,

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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #11 - 08/31/11 at 18:17:17
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I think its way too much a generalization. It varies too much from person to person. I know a person who if he'd learn and make a basic opening repertoire would be a master. But because he gets this terribly lost positions by move 7 every game... he losses a lot more than he should. He spends too much time on endgames and zilch on openings. Balance is the key to everything.
  
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #10 - 08/31/11 at 18:04:15
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If I win in the endgame, I won't complain. Smiley
  
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #9 - 08/31/11 at 17:34:26
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Sorry Uhoh, I didn't get that feel from the OP, I actually agree with it 100% and think that it holds true up to a pretty high ELO, assuming the OP is referring to OTB and not correspondence of course.

This is a great opening theory site and I don't think the OP is attacking the content, just the amount of time people tend to spend on openings to the detriment of other parts of the game.  I get the feeling a lot of players on here would gain a lot of rating points if they switched their focus, that is not supposed to be patronising (I am in no position to patronise), but is just an observation.
  
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #8 - 08/31/11 at 17:22:08
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I don't like the first post in this thread. It's way too much generalizing, and presumptuous. It's really preachy, and yet all coming from a random internet user who may have a rating of 1800. It's all cliched, and I don't agree with calling the rational for focusing less on endgame "nonsense". How can YOU talk about other people's games and say other people don't realize their amount of endgames? 

I think people spend too much time making generalized statements on message boards, aphorisms here and there, without thought that human behaviour and chess learning is a lot more complex than that.
  
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #7 - 08/31/11 at 16:33:34
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GMs spend a lot of time on the openings. You can improve your chess in all stages of the game through opening study, but I think there is a tendency to develop too narrow of an approach at an early stage that hinders development. The common repertoire approach to opening books may not help this. I often see a lack of general opening knowledge, so maybe it's not so much the amount of time, but how it's spent.
  
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #6 - 08/31/11 at 16:03:40
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Whenever I think I spend too much time studying openings, I find that I can spend some more  Wink
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #5 - 08/31/11 at 15:39:21
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I don't know if players in general, spend too much time studying openings, but I am fairly sure that many people in this forum do.

I don't meet many club players who spend too much time on openings; usually I think many of them could afford to spend more.  But you do have a few people obsessing about openings, and those are the sort who are attracted to this website.  The absolute worst, or at any rate the most self-destructive, are the weak players who continually fret over whether they're playing the right opening.  Those people are really doomed.  Second worst are weak players not attending to the importance of open positions -- but that's my hobby horse, of course.

The fundamental rule should be, learn just as much theory as you need to win your games of chess, no more.  Obviously the quantity of theory you need to learn increases as your strength increases.  And if you lose any games while playing sound openings, you may be sure your defeats are due to your shortcomings as a player, not your choice of opening.

I disagree however with the OP that the structure of this forum proves anything, since it's a forum whose subject is openings.
  

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Re: People spend too much time studying openings.
Reply #4 - 08/31/11 at 15:16:24
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Generally agree with the OP, but a couple of points:

a) I would expect that a huge difference between a GM and an amateur is the opening as well. Most GMs study the opening really seriously. Myself, I can really tell the difference when I have to play against an FM.

b) Myself I think the opening is more hard work than the endgame and also that the results of this work are less obvious than with endgame study with which you see some obvious differences in your play.

This has made me think that one should not neglect the opening either and try to invest some time in it from time to time (you will not be able to learn an opening in 1 week, so it is better to avoid waking up after say 3 years being a 2000 and realising you have to learn from scratch your main defence vs. 1. e4!). Also your openings lead to certain middlegames and endgames you will most frequently meet and this affects your chess development. So some thought should be put on choosing an optimum opening repertoire as well.

The problem I see is not in people studying the opening, but mostly in cases of people alloting no study time for middlegame/endgame technique or in cases when people study the opening but in the wrong way (e.g. a 1600 memorising opening lines).
Smiley
  

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