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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1 (Read 33060 times)
Ametanoitos
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #36 - 01/12/12 at 08:30:12
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Yes, it is definately "Daring Defences" book!
  
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TN
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #35 - 01/12/12 at 03:25:00
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I'm thinking of moving this thread to General Chess since the book is meant to cover gambits arising after 1.d4 and 1.c4. However, I don't own the book so I don't know how much of the coverage is classified under 'Daring Defences'. Is the majority of the coverage on the Benko and Blumenfeld?
  

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gwnn
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #34 - 01/11/12 at 23:30:56
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/11/12 at 20:52:47:
gwnn wrote on 01/11/12 at 10:50:27:
That's what I was thinking too... Sure I can reach it via 1 d4 e6 but I was interesting how to play the Benko/Vaganian/Blumenfeld whilst avoiding the Semi-Tarrasch.


In the line you're talking about, don't you just play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5 4. Nc3 (your move order) 4...cxd4 5.Nxd4 and now 5...Nc6 or 5...Bb4, as TN pointed out?  You've avoided the Semi-Tarrasch and could still have aimed for the Blumenfeld after 4.d5 b5.  What am I missing?

You didn't miss much. But in the Alterman book the recommended line is 4 .. d5 with 'a variation of the Tarrasch defence'. So I wanted to see how that would work out.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #33 - 01/11/12 at 20:52:47
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gwnn wrote on 01/11/12 at 10:50:27:
That's what I was thinking too... Sure I can reach it via 1 d4 e6 but I was interesting how to play the Benko/Vaganian/Blumenfeld whilst avoiding the Semi-Tarrasch.


In the line you're talking about, don't you just play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5 4. Nc3 (your move order) 4...cxd4 5.Nxd4 and now 5...Nc6 or 5...Bb4, as TN pointed out?  You've avoided the Semi-Tarrasch and could still have aimed for the Blumenfeld after 4.d5 b5.  What am I missing?
  
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gwnn
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #32 - 01/11/12 at 10:50:27
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That's what I was thinking too... Sure I can reach it via 1 d4 e6 but I was interesting how to play the Benko/Vaganian/Blumenfeld whilst avoiding the Semi-Tarrasch.
  
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TN
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #31 - 01/11/12 at 10:15:19
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gwnn wrote on 01/11/12 at 08:54:46:
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/11/12 at 07:18:03:
Sorry, i didn't even read the original question well. Of course, if White plays Nf3+Nc3 then Black should take on d4. It is page 333 in GM 10.

I don't have GM 10 in front of me but I think you're talking about

1 d4 d5
2 c4 e6
3 Nc3 c5
4 Nf3 cxd4

i.e. Black has not played Nf6 yet. How to reach this line from the line I talked about (1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 e6 3 c4 c5 4 Nc3)?


You can't reach this line after 1.d4 Nf6. You can reach it with 1.d4 e6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3, for example, but it's difficult to play the Tarrasch using an 1...e6 move order unless you play 2...d5, in which case you have restricted your options somewhat against the d-pawn Specials. It is possible to play the Semi-Tarrasch with 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 c5, avoiding the Exchange QGD and some of the Bg5 systems, but that's a different opening altogether.
  

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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #30 - 01/11/12 at 08:54:46
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/11/12 at 07:18:03:
Sorry, i didn't even read the original question well. Of course, if White plays Nf3+Nc3 then Black should take on d4. It is page 333 in GM 10.

I don't have GM 10 in front of me but I think you're talking about

1 d4 d5
2 c4 e6
3 Nc3 c5
4 Nf3 cxd4

i.e. Black has not played Nf6 yet. How to reach this line from the line I talked about (1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 e6 3 c4 c5 4 Nc3)?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #29 - 01/11/12 at 07:18:03
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Sorry, i didn't even read the original question well. Of course, if White plays Nf3+Nc3 then Black should take on d4. It is page 333 in GM 10.
  
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TN
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #28 - 01/10/12 at 23:58:49
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/10/12 at 23:05:34:
Taking on d4 is not the best choice as it opens the position in White's favor. Black (and White in this position) wants to be flexible and to choose the right structure (will i have the IQP or my opponent?) when it is favourable.


4...cd4 5.Nd4 Nc6 and 5...Bb4 are the main line of the d4 Symmetrical English and a trendy line of the Nimzo-Indian respectively but 5...d5 is not sufficient for equality. 

The problem with 4...d5 for a Tarrasch player is that 5.cd5 ed5 6.Bg5 Be7 7.e3 is just better for White. 

Also I would have thought a more logical example of a transposition would be 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.e3 d5 4.c4 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.e3 d5 both of which lead to a Tarrasch, (technically a Semi-Tarrasch but White can reach this from a Tarrasch move order) but with White committed to e3.
  

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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #27 - 01/10/12 at 23:05:34
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Taking on d4 is not the best choice as it opens the position in White's favor. Black (and White in this position) wants to be flexible and to choose the right structure (will i have the IQP or my opponent?) when it is favourable.
  
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #26 - 01/10/12 at 16:31:28
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/10/12 at 14:50:04:
I agree that it is not a repertoire work in the sense of "Grandmaster Repertoire" for example, but i found in it much more than i expected plus some top notch analysis of some critical theoretical positions! (for example the "old" main line of the Benko with the fiachettoed King is covered excellently). In the "hot" g3 line he doesn't offer a 100% solution but he comes really close in my opinion (i had to discover the real solution myself, meaning the improvement over Avrukh, but it was in the line Alterman gave as sound for Black). Also, in the f3 line (discussed in some depth in chesspub in another thread) he gives a pretty solution that maes me want to play that way again for Black (i chose to defend the position with bxc4 and Qa5+ that Markovic likes a couple of times in practice but Alterman says that White has a slight edge there. I have gone that way because the lines offered in Pinki's book seemed to me clearly chaotic but Alterman makes life a lot easier there!)
Alterman also has some nice things to say in the b6-declined line.

As i said, i got much more than i was expecting from theory's perspective as i had his first book which was much "lighter" in theory but had offered an excellent structure in order to study or teach the systems he examined.

Nikos, I have a question about the Tarrasch transposition in Alterman's book. He says

1 d4 Nf6
2 Nf3 e6
3 c4 c5
4 Nc3

Black could/should play 4.. d5. However, this is a Semi-Tarrasch, not a Tarrasch. Is it possible to take on d4 first and then play 5 .. d5 ?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #25 - 01/10/12 at 14:50:04
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I agree that it is not a repertoire work in the sense of "Grandmaster Repertoire" for example, but i found in it much more than i expected plus some top notch analysis of some critical theoretical positions! (for example the "old" main line of the Benko with the fiachettoed King is covered excellently). In the "hot" g3 line he doesn't offer a 100% solution but he comes really close in my opinion (i had to discover the real solution myself, meaning the improvement over Avrukh, but it was in the line Alterman gave as sound for Black). Also, in the f3 line (discussed in some depth in chesspub in another thread) he gives a pretty solution that maes me want to play that way again for Black (i chose to defend the position with bxc4 and Qa5+ that Markovic likes a couple of times in practice but Alterman says that White has a slight edge there. I have gone that way because the lines offered in Pinki's book seemed to me clearly chaotic but Alterman makes life a lot easier there!)
Alterman also has some nice things to say in the b6-declined line.

As i said, i got much more than i was expecting from theory's perspective as i had his first book which was much "lighter" in theory but had offered an excellent structure in order to study or teach the systems he examined.
  
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #24 - 12/29/11 at 22:09:34
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Fllg wrote on 12/24/11 at 09:34:32:

This book is not a repertoire work. If White does not play 3.d5 he recommends the Vaganian Gambit as I wrote above.

The chapter against 1.c4 is entirely different and has nothing to do with the Benko. Here he takes a look at the English Defence 1... b6 with emphasis on 2.d4 Bb7 3.Nc3 e6 4.e4 Bb4 5.f3 f5 6.exf5 Nh6.

I like the book but surely you have to do some independent work in most lines if you want to play them.

Completely agree. It is better than a theoretical work in the sense you get much better acquainted with the openings, but much less in the sense that you miss certain lines. Though I must add that that doesnt go for the main lines.
  

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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #23 - 12/24/11 at 09:34:32
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gramsci wrote on 12/24/11 at 07:36:38:
Excuse my poor english: when I said "copy" I meant "the same as" of course.  I had no intention of saying the book it's a fake, in spanish you can interchange both words. My apologies.

Ah, okay. I´m not a native speaker myself so I understand your problems. On first reading though it sounded somewhat harsh. 
gramsci wrote on 12/24/11 at 07:36:38:
Nevertheless, could you please tell me what line against the English does Alterman recommend for Benko players?

This book is not a repertoire work. If White does not play 3.d5 he recommends the Vaganian Gambit as I wrote above.

The chapter against 1.c4 is entirely different and has nothing to do with the Benko. Here he takes a look at the English Defence 1... b6 with emphasis on 2.d4 Bb7 3.Nc3 e6 4.e4 Bb4 5.f3 f5 6.exf5 Nh6.

I like the book but surely you have to do some independent work in most lines if you want to play them.
  
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Re: The Alterman Gambit Guide - Black Gambits 1
Reply #22 - 12/24/11 at 07:36:38
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Excuse my poor english: when I said "copy" I meant "the same as" of course.  I had no intention of saying the book is a fake, in spanish you can interchange both words. My apologies.
Nevertheless, could you please tell me what line against the English does Alterman recommend for Benko players?
« Last Edit: 12/24/11 at 10:16:20 by gramsci »  
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