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Poll Question: Should mutually agreed draws be banned?



« Last Modified by: GMTonyKosten on: 05/19/12 at 14:03:50 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) No draw offers before move 40 (Read 58347 times)
GMTonyKosten
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #62 - 05/16/12 at 17:42:54
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I don't understand, this game is a perfectly valid three-fold repetition. Many openings contain variations with forced draws, they are not prohibited by law.

Apparently, in this year's French Junior Champs players who simply repeated moves 3 times were given a loss each if the repetition wasn't forced! Huh
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #61 - 05/16/12 at 17:39:50
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such has decided French Chess Federation. The rule first applies to national championships (including scholastics) and then to all league games. 
...
Do you consider this a step in the right direction ?

I've just refused to play the French Championships this year because they insist on this rule (where players cannot agree a draw at all without permission from the arbiter), I've also told the Federation that I will never play the event again if they keep this rule!
However, I don't know if any other players have refused, although I have the impression that most French players prefer not to upset the apple cart. Roll Eyes
  
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dfan
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #60 - 12/13/11 at 00:03:49
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I heartily agree! I feel like there were a lot more tournaments like this (round robins including both the world elite and second-tier players) back in the 1950s and 60s (maybe they lasted for a while longer after that, that's just when the ones I remember are from). I think it makes for a great tournament for the front-runners to have to exert themselves to beat the stragglers in order to actually win the whole thing.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #59 - 12/12/11 at 22:23:40
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The London Chess Classic just finished. At first blush, it appears to have been a rousing success for "football scoring", but the real story is that in order to have a large number of decisive results, the organizers have to invite a few fish. Of course, 2700 is only "fishy" in a relative sense. 

Consider:  The top 6 players (of whom, only McShane was British) scored 4 decisive games, 11 draws out of 15 games against each other. The total number of decisive games: 17/36.

If organizers want a large number of decisive games, don't mess with the rules. Football scoring is cute, but not measurably better than traditional scoring. The way to get a larger number of wins is to bring in the fish! (But not too many fish please!)

  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #58 - 12/01/11 at 19:56:33
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Exactly. I was trying to illustrate how draw bans before a certain move accomplish nothing. It also punishes draws that are hard fought. Players tired from a difficult game that results in a drawn position will probably not be amused in playing until a certain move to draw. It just wastes their energy and time for their next game.
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #57 - 12/01/11 at 02:59:59
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 12/01/11 at 00:48:57:
Unless the draw ban before move 40 is complemented with the removal of an automatic draw via threefold repetition? Smiley


Then they just repeat and repeat until move 40, no sweat.
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #56 - 12/01/11 at 00:48:57
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Unless the draw ban before move 40 is complemented with the removal of an automatic draw via threefold repetition? Smiley
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #55 - 11/29/11 at 11:23:00
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The point was Willempie's wrong claim about the need of having a winner in a tournament. This is only correct in cases of qualification tournaments. Even if it's for titles this is no must. The examples were only a demonstration. The proof lies in the missing reason.

The idea of making chess more interesting by delaying dead equal positions by (x) moves till a qualified draw is allowed demands a comment by Mr. Spock. He is wiser than I am. He stays silent.  Wink
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #54 - 11/29/11 at 09:06:25
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But cricket is the second most popular sport after football, which means almost 2 billion people play or watch it

And I am a Commonwealth citizen Smiley
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #53 - 11/29/11 at 01:41:41
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Would you mind leaving off the incomprehensible cricket analogies? There are no competitive baseball analogies, btw, because there is essentially no way to forestall a decisive result in a baseball game, and no incentive to do so either.
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #52 - 11/28/11 at 20:24:45
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If that is the rule on innings for Day 5 (or even worse, if the team batting second or third is still batting past lunch on Day 5), then it would be similar to a draw ban before move 40 (half hour before stumps). Just like how the fielding side can have a pace bowler bowl wide of off stump or a spinner bowling a leg stump line, players in chess might just shuffle their pieces around in a drawn position or equal endgame because there would be no productive way of completing the game.
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #51 - 11/28/11 at 15:19:13
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 11/28/11 at 14:49:53:
Markovich, judging from the games played at the Tal Memorial, a three-fold repetition is allowed before move 40. 



Well then, where this rule prevails, I think we'll see many more three-fold repetitions within the first 20-30 moves than otherwise expected.  Rule-makers in general seldom seem to have the imagination to work out what they're doing to the structure of incentives.
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #50 - 11/28/11 at 14:49:53
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Markovich, judging from the games played at the Tal Memorial, a three-fold repetition is allowed before move 40. 

  
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Markovich
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #49 - 11/28/11 at 13:13:44
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What happens if threefold repetition, e.g. by perpetual check is obtained before the requisite number of moves?  Forgive me for my unwillingness to scan four pages of posts to see if this question has already been answered.

I would think that it would be simple enough to collude with one's opponent and produce such a "game."
  
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Re: No draw offers before move 40
Reply #48 - 11/28/11 at 10:29:13
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JonathanB wrote on 11/28/11 at 09:54:13:

As for your analogy of test teams agreeing a draw on the last day - that's only allowed with (I think) half an hour to go.  They can't just pack up at lunch time.  This does certainly lead to a few hours of meaningless play on some occasions.

Isnt that the entire point of cricket? Wink
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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