(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Other › Endgames › Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win.
(Moderators: trw, Jupp53)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Normal Topic Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win. (Read 3708 times)
Jupp53
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win.
Reply #5 - 01/02/12 at 17:28:01
Post Tools
Awerbach, Lehrbuch der Schachendspiele, Sportverlag, Berlin 1981, p.84, Position 107

gives the following lines. In the German translation is referred to a Reuben Fine book "Die hauptsächlichen Schachendspiele" - meaning probably the "Basic Endgames" - as giving the starting position of the following pgn. If you don't want to spoil your fun first analysing the game position given from Tony Kosten skip the lines.



This is the position after move 13 showing the relationship to the OP.

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*
  
Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win.
Reply #4 - 12/31/11 at 15:38:45
Post Tools
Finding the time for analyzing the position again today I looked after a preliminary solution into Müller/Lamprecht - Secrets Of Pawn Endings. You'll find the deciding maneouvre on p. 70 via the position 5.10 of the book. The authors state: "This winning manoeuvre was first shown by Maizelis."

Now there's a weak memory here of having seen this position with the pawn on f6 before. Maybe it's possible to find (maybe for readers of this topic useful) evidence for an earlier existence of this position. Has someone Pinter's 1000 pawn endings which I looked into in a library?

Some logical reasoning helps to get the solution. One hint: The lines in the 2nd post show that an attack from the black king on h3 against the pawn h2 leads to a draw. So the king has to take another way literally. Keep this in mind and extend it.
  
Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Papageno
Senior Member
****
Offline


FM

Posts: 299
Location: Germany
Joined: 06/12/08
Gender: Male
Re: Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win.
Reply #3 - 12/30/11 at 18:17:27
Post Tools
Thx for this one, Tony, with a nice anecdote of Pinter! And a chess position which turned out to be too difficult to me. And just like Tony I knew the win with White to move but could not do the job with Black to move.

As to endgame books, I have not yet seen this very position in any book. Müller/Lamprecht's "Secrets of Pawn Endings" has many similar examples, e.g. one with black pawns f5+h6 instead of f6+h5 (unless I'm mistaken this was from a game by Sunye Neto) but that little difference is changing the outcome... Endgame books like Müller/Lamprecht and the older Awerbach ones regularly have the black f-pawn more advanced than on f6.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win.
Reply #2 - 12/24/11 at 12:55:52
Post Tools
First step - this is the defense line for white.

  
Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win.
Reply #1 - 12/21/11 at 23:30:55
Post Tools
This is a position in an endgame book iirc. I've worked on it about these days last year. I remember the f6-pawn being important on f6 and the difficulties of understanding the winning manoeuvres.

About the book is my first guess is K. Müller - Pawn endings. But first I will try to solve this.
  
Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3207
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Schneider-Kuzubov and Pinter's win.
12/21/11 at 22:43:48
Post Tools
In a 2009 Austrian League match I was sitting next to the Schneider-Kuzubov game where Black had been winning easily with queen v rook but had messed it up a bit (pushing his h-pawn unnecessarily) and then reached the following position, where he went into a deep think:

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

By this point I had already finished my game and went downstairs to get a coffee and showed the position to my president, saying that I thought it might only be drawn. Hungarian GM Joszef Pinter then came over and pointed out that it was still a clear win with a very sophisticated manoeuvre. He then claimed he was the only person in the world who new how to win this position!
Today I looked at this again (by chance) with a student and couldn't remember how to win it! That is, I could remember how to win with White to move, but not with Black.
Can anyone work it out without cheating? By that I mean it is really easy to simply switch Rybka with tablebases on, when it will say mate in 28, but what is the point?
I think it is very difficult for a mere human! Wink
  
Back to top
WWWFacebookTwitter  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge