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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How to train youngsters? (Read 17902 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #31 - 09/06/16 at 03:14:22
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Just make sure they're having fun and you'll be fine.  Otherwise they won't learn anything anyway.
  
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #30 - 09/06/16 at 01:47:51
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See The Right Way to Teach Chess to Kids by Richard James (an inexpensive Kindle book)
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #29 - 02/23/12 at 21:11:47
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Stigma wrote on 02/23/12 at 19:54:02:
ErictheRed wrote on 02/23/12 at 16:55:54:
Please read this thread: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1329637248.  My advice?  Avoid pedagogy, instill fun.  Once they hit 1200ish and have figured out how to develop quickly, use basic tactics, defend against their opponents' threats, etc., THEN you can start with more formalized training, not before. 


But isn't "develop quickly, use basic tactics, defend against opponents' threats" already pedagogy? Surely there's a debate to be had about the most fun and effective ways to help kids develop even the first, most basic skills.

To me your comment sounds a bit like saying "first the kids learn to read and write, then you start with the pedagogy", which is equally upside-down. 

At least I have not found any good way to avoid all pedagogical ideas and avoid all positions from books (or programs like the Steps Method)... It sounds like there's an expectation that the kids will develop these basic skills just by playing a lot and maybe being corrected when they go wrong, but that doesn't happen so neatly with everybody, in my experience.


I fixed the link.

You're right of course Stigma; my vocabulary probably isn't good enough to find the right word.  I should have said: "Avoid pedantry, instill fun." Try to get the kids to learn by doing, not lecturing, etc.  

I spent a few years in college teaching chess in after school programs, usually with 8-15 students.  At first I thought of a wonderful, structured way to teach them, but soon realized that they were complete beginners and really needed to have fun, not have more "school."  So I reduced my instruction down to about 5 minutes where I tried to give them one new idea.  For instance, 1.e4 e5 2.Bd3? was bad because now there was  traffic jam on the board and the Queenside pieces couldn't move!  Don't make traffic jams!, etc.  Then I'd unleash them to play, wander around, offer praise and encouragement as I watched their games, etc.  Once they were having fun they were more receptive to little individual "lessons" as I commented on their games while they finished up.  

I can't say that I've had the success that Markovich has had, but I got a lot of kids to the point where they were ready to start playing in tournaments, USCF 1200ish strength.  When dealing with complete beginners you really just want them to love the game and be open to little suggestions, that's about it.  We can have a different discussion once they've achieved a basic level of competency and shown interest in improving on their own.
  
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Stigma
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #28 - 02/23/12 at 19:54:02
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ErictheRed wrote on 02/23/12 at 16:55:54:
Please read this thread: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1329637248.  My advice?  Avoid pedagogy, instill fun.  Once they hit 1200ish and have figured out how to develop quickly, use basic tactics, defend against their opponents' threats, etc., THEN you can start with more formalized training, not before. 


But isn't "develop quickly, use basic tactics, defend against opponents' threats" already pedagogy? Surely there's a debate to be had about the most fun and effective ways to help kids develop even the first, most basic skills.

To me your comment sounds a bit like saying "first the kids learn to read and write, then you start with the pedagogy", which is equally upside-down. 

At least I have not found any good way to avoid all pedagogical ideas and avoid all positions from books (or programs like the Steps Method)... It sounds like there's an expectation that the kids will develop these basic skills just by playing a lot and maybe being corrected when they go wrong, but that doesn't happen so neatly with everybody, in my experience.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #27 - 02/23/12 at 17:54:25
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Eric, that link doesn't work.

I agree completely that we as teachers need to remember that the main reason to play chess is to have fun! 

If your students aren't having fun, something's wrong.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #26 - 02/23/12 at 16:55:54
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Please read this thread: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1329637248 .  My advice?  Avoid pedagogy, instill fun.  Once they hit 1200ish and have figured out how to develop quickly, use basic tactics, defend against their opponents' threats, etc., THEN you can start with more formalized training, not before. 
« Last Edit: 02/23/12 at 20:57:33 by ErictheRed »  
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #25 - 02/23/12 at 15:03:35
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Paddy wrote on 02/23/12 at 12:42:27:
It really does depend on how much experience a junior already has. Here's a quick summary of what I see, year after year, group after group. They tend to go through these rough stages:

Stage 1: chaotic - "I feel like moving this there, hey, I just lost my queen, oh dear, never mind, lots of pieces left" or from some more sensitive soul:  "I lost my queen, boo- hoo, I don't like this game", etc. 

Stage 2: acquiring cunning, learning from experience, a growing awareness of the weakness of f2 and f7, c2 and c7 and the back rank, plus a few techniques and basic traps, such as Scholar's Mate and how to defend against it, the Petroff trap, the Fried Liver attack. At the same time beginning to sense the different strengths of the pieces (the reality behind the point count) learning how to mate with K+Q (and maybe even K+R), how to avoid stalemating the opponent. Learning that there is an opponent on the other side of the board, whose intentions are just as evil and cunning as our own...

Stage 3: "Scholar's mate is for little kids. Me, I know that chess is really all about playing in the centre, developing my pieces and castling." 
Hence the awful prevalence in junior chess of the Giuoco Pianissimo (aka the "Old Stodge"), with Pe4, knights on f3 and c3, Bc4, Pd3, 0-0. Most kids go through a phase of this, and will often revert to it (against anything) when feeling insecure.

Stage 4: beginning to play "real chess"; learning some more opening ideas, some brave souls even experimenting with gambits (first they have to learn the value of material, then how to give it up in exchange for time and position...).

After that it's using books and computers, maybe getting coaching, developing their own preferences in openings, playing in tournaments, not really much different from adult chess really.

I like this. Judging by my own students, who are 11-15 years old, it is a remarkably accurate description of the different levels of chess stages that kids pass though while improving. E.g. while I tell all my students not to play for scholar's mate, only the better ones (the "stage 3 kids") really understand why it is bad. For the others it's more like "Why not try it? If it doesn't work, I can always bring my queen back and move my other pieces."

Books can be interesting and beneficial for kids at lower stages (I remember eagerly devouring whole chess books while I was still a beginner), but this totally depends on individual aspects, such as the kid's interest in the game and his attitude towards reading.
  
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #24 - 02/23/12 at 12:42:27
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This topic keeps coming up in various forms, and Markovich and I and others keep patiently trying to set would-be junior coaches on the right path. Markovich is right - he is experienced at this - he knows what works and what doesn't. Ponder his every word on the topic of coaching juniors. Open games, tactical patterns, basic mates, simple direct strategies (etc. - see Markovich's post) - these should be the priorities.

Books? Geez, most kids just don't associate chess with books, and quite rightly too; it's a game (or a sort of "play-fight")! And until they have acquired a whole lot of experience by just playing, they don't need books, and books won't help them. 

Of course, a lot of what you do, and how you do it, in the teaching of chess to children should depend on two things:
- their "child development " stage (Piaget and all that);
- their "chess development"stage. 

Updating an earlier post of mine:

It really does depend on how much experience a junior already has. Here's a quick summary of what I see, year after year, group after group. They tend to go through these rough stages:

Stage 1: chaotic - "I feel like moving this there, hey, I just lost my queen, oh dear, never mind, lots of pieces left" or from some more sensitive soul:  "I lost my queen, boo- hoo, I don't like this game", etc. 

Stage 2: acquiring cunning, learning from experience, a growing awareness of the weakness of f2 and f7, c2 and c7 and the back rank, plus a few techniques and basic traps, such as Scholar's Mate and how to defend against it, the Petroff trap, the Fried Liver attack. At the same time beginning to sense the different strengths of the pieces (the reality behind the point count) learning how to mate with K+Q (and maybe even K+R), how to avoid stalemating the opponent. Learning that there is an opponent on the other side of the board, whose intentions are just as evil and cunning as our own...

Stage 3: "Scholar's mate is for little kids. Me, I know that chess is really all about playing in the centre, developing my pieces and castling." 
Hence the awful prevalence in junior chess of the Giuoco Pianissimo (aka the "Old Stodge"), with Pe4, knights on f3 and c3, Bc4, Pd3, 0-0. Most kids go through a phase of this, and will often revert to it (against anything) when feeling insecure.

Stage 4: beginning to play "real chess"; learning some more opening ideas, some brave souls even experimenting with gambits (first they have to learn the value of material, then how to give it up in exchange for time and position...).

After that it's using books and computers, maybe getting coaching, developing their own preferences in openings, playing in tournaments, not really much different from adult chess really.

All the time, they are playing, playing, developing tactical skills, some basic strategic ideas, stamina, foresight, patience... The harder they try, the more it hurts when they lose; it's tough, but they've got to get used to it if they want to make progress. For some the pleasure-pain balance between winning and losing is just too skewed towards pain, and those players should be encouraged to take up something other than such an unforgiving competitive activity - or just play their friends for fun - no disgrace in that.

Some never progress beyond a particular stage, some move through the stages at amazing speed!

For more ideas, see:

http://www.chesskids.com

http://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/index.php

http://www.btinternet.com/~cccs.chess/ChessClubCoaching.htm
  
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #23 - 02/23/12 at 07:44:53
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Markovich wrote on 02/01/12 at 01:26:04:
The main thing is to communicate the excitement and the fighting character of chess. The child should play chess much more than be told about it. He should know that chess is a rip-roaring fight. And tell him nothing more than he needs to win his games. This certainly includes the principles of classical development, the play of open positions, and tactics. It does not include much more until he gets up to a fairly respectable level with 19th Century-style play. How much did Kieseritzky know about middle games, after all?

Developing the pieces, controlling the center, driving away enemy pieces, king attack based on  better development, king attack based on better space, king attack based on the uncastled king and especially down the e-file, king attack in opposite-side castling situations, that's pretty much it.

Interesting recommendations, most of which I'm following now. I'm using Nunn's LEARN CHESS which also covers these, and has lots of exercises in.

Must say I'm not sure about all this attacking the king lot since attacking the king is notoriously difficult!! The chapter in Nunn's book seems way over the top for beginners. 

After finishing the book I intend to continue with focussing on the phases of the game:
opening - general principles
middle game tactics: Nunn's LEARN CHESS TACTICS
middle game strategy: Euwe's MASTER VS AMATEUR
endgame: Averbakh's CHESS ENDINGS ESSENTIAL KNOWLEDGE.
I'm still on the lookout for a good book on general opening principles.

Nunn rightly says the computer can be quite useful to learn chess so I've made them play against the computer where it's set at "patzer" level. The computer shows the moves they can make and indicates the squares the pieces can go with different colours. all very useful, and hopefully exciting.

The ultimate goal is to get them self-motivated to really like and enjoy the game. They have to play lots of chess and win to achieve this I'm sure. But joining a club is a no go yet because the children are too young and have to go to bed early.   
  
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #22 - 02/01/12 at 01:26:04
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The main thing is to communicate the excitement and the fighting character of chess. The child should play chess much more than be told about it. He should know that chess is a rip-roaring fight. And tell him nothing more than he needs to win his games. This certainly includes the principles of classical development, the play of open positions, and tactics. It does not include much more until he gets up to a fairly respectable level with 19th Century-style play. How much did Kieseritzky know about middle games, after all?

Developing the pieces, controlling the center, driving away enemy pieces, king attack based on  better development, king attack based on better space, king attack based on the uncastled king and especially down the e-file, king attack in opposite-side castling situations, that's pretty much it.
  

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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #21 - 01/31/12 at 19:14:02
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My understanding of middlegame strategy developed very haphardously until (around 1500) i studied Reassess Your Chess. I've often thought about what I should have studied before Silman to make progress up to that point smoother. You could look at the middlegame coverage in:

Del Rosario: A First Book of Morphy
Wolff: The Complete Idiot's Guide to Chess

and Part 1 of Nimzowitsch: My System
(though all these have some material on general opening and endgame play too).

As first introductions to attacking play, besides Del Rosario I'm partial to Walker: Attacking the King (if you can find it) and Kotov's chapter on attack in The Art of the Middlegame.

There are also some games collections with mostly prose that cover various aspects of strategy, though these might still be a bit too advanced:

Chernev: The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played
and  the two books on the same formula by Giddins, with more modern examples:
50 Essential Chess Lessons
50 Ways to Win at Chess


Anyway, don't overdo strategy; these kids are probably at a level where tactics decides most games.
  

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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #20 - 01/31/12 at 11:19:42
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When I was 10 the Euwe Amateur plays against ... three book series was a good reading for me when I had neither a teacher nor a chess club. It was in the public library.
  

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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #19 - 01/31/12 at 09:42:46
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What do you consider a good basic book on middlegame strategy, suitable for youngsters? I'm having a bit of a hard time finding anything suitable since most books are too advanced.
  
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #18 - 01/30/12 at 18:34:41
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I'be been teaching chess for over 40 years now, so I hope you'll find some ideas you can use in my old article at

http://www.btinternet.com/~cccs.chess/ChessClubCoaching.htm

I can also recommend you consult the blog of GM Nigel Davies, who is teaching his young son to play!
http://chessimprover.com

And IMHO an essential site is:
http://www.chesskids.com

Focus on what the students seem to find interesting and enjoyable, rather than force-feeding them a diet of material you have culled from books that are probably going to be way out of their league for a considerable time to come.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: 01/30/12 at 23:21:08 by Phil Adams »  
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Re: How to train youngsters?
Reply #17 - 01/30/12 at 16:55:28
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Thanks for all your advice guys. We'll see how it goes. From what I've heard these youngsters already know a bit of openings but then don't know what to do afterwards. This almost automatically point to the middlegame where I intend to work on strategy (using John Nunn's Understanding Chess Middle Games, and maybe some other book (Euwe?)) and tactics, using Nunn's Learn Chess Tactics. So I suppose I will be spending quite some time on the middle game before arriving at the endgame and the opening. Of course I will try to get hold of their own games and analyse these, and preferably provide feedback in accordance with middle game themes they have learned.   
It will also be a challenge how to tackle endgames, because youngsters tend to find these notoriously boring. Without good reason that is!
  
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