Hi.

I concluded that after 9...Nd7 white at the minimum has the following attempt. A lot of other lines just allowed black to play his standard King's Indian stuff though.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Be2 O-O 6.Nf3 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Nd2 Nd7 10.b4 f5 11.a4!?
11.c5 is the main move.
11...Nf6
11...a5 12.bxa5 Rxa5 13.Nb3 Ra8 14.f3 and probably there are predecessors. I am just going to say this looks like to much of what white wants (mostly open queenside) so I don't especially like it.

11...f4 12.Bg4!? Nf6 13.Bxc8 Qxc8 14.c5 g5 15.f3 Ng6 16.Nc4 the standard wisdom is black will never mate now. I guess white is somewhat better and black has low prospects for counterplay.

11...Rf7!? 12.a5!? Nf6 
12...Kh8 was given at first by my computer but seems to just waste time 13.f3 Nf6 14.c5 f4 15.Nc4 g5 16.cxd6 cxd6 17.Nb5 Ne8 18.Qe1! black should have problems
13.c5 f4 14.Nc4 g5 15.b5! Ng6 16.b6 axb6 17.cxd6 cxd6 18.Nxb6 Rb8 19.Nb5 and it looks like white should be better. He is further on in his play.

11...c5?! 12.bxc5 Nxc5 13.Nb3!? b6 14.a5 Rb8 15.axb6 axb6 16.Nxc5 bxc5 17.Ra3 seems a little bit more comfortable for white due to the mostly open queenside.

11...g5? 12.exf5 a5 
12...Nxf5 13.Nde4 h6 14.a5 keeps control for white
13.bxa5 Nxf5 14.Nde4 h6 15.Ba3 Rxa5 16.Bb4 Ra8 17.a5 Is very comfortable for white.

12.f3
12.a5 f4 13.c5 g5 14.a6 b6 15.Bb5!? Rb8!? 16.Nc4 Ng6 In such a closed position white's slight pressure on the queenside should not be worth much. Black essentially just played his most natural moves so I don't think this is optimal.

12.Ba3!? seems like an interesting possibility. The good thing is it develops to a natural square. The bad thing is that if black takes fxe4 at some point the square stops being nearly as good (still not really bad though). This means black starts playing for that option in a lot of lines. Since capturing on e4 reduces a lot of the dynamism in the position it becomes a question of is white still strategically better somehow after that. Very hard to say. White also needs something against 14...f4 and standard play from black but it seems to me like he should have more options than normally by not yet having played f3 or Nc4. I could be wrong though.

12...f4
12...Bh6!? Is also an option. That might be what black should try.

13.c5 g5 14.Ba3!? Rf7 15.b5
15.a5 Bf8 16.b5 dxc5 17.Bxc5 Nexd5! 18.Nb3 Bxc5+ 19.Nxc5 Qe7 20.Nxd5 Qxc5+ 21.Kh1 Nxd5 22.Rc1 Qd4 23.exd5 Qxd1!? 24.Rfxd1 Kg7 seems like compensation but not more for white.

15...Bf8
15...Ng6 16.b6 
16.c6!? 
16...cxb6 17.cxd6 Ne8 should transpose to 15...Bf8, even if it is not guaranteed.

15...dxc5 16.Bxc5 Ng6
16...Bf8 17.Bc4 Kg7 18.d6 cxd6 19.Bxf7!? (19.Bf2) 19...dxc5 20.Bd5 Seems very good for white unless black somehow has a improbable defence.
17.Bc4!? Kh8 18.d6 Rd7 19.Be6 Rxd6 20.Bxd6 Bxe6 21.Bc5 and I did not analyse deeply but at this point it seems at least somewhat promising for white.

16.b6!?
16.c6 could also be tricky.
16...cxb6
16...axb6 17.cxd6 cxd6 18.Nc4 Ng6 19.Qb3 Ra6 20.Nb5 Ne8 21.Bb4 Is probably more than sufficient compensation but proving it is perhaps not totally trivial.
17.cxd6 Ng6 18.Nb5 Ne8 19.Qb3!? White again has good compensation (as soon as black takes on d6). The question is if it can be converted to something more tangible.

There was also a line in 11.c5 I found troubling. Both can be avoided by 9...Ne8, although idk. Maybe there could be other stuff in that line.

Have a nice day.

Golubev, Understanding the King's Indian, has two games where black plays in the spirit of the Mar Del Plata (MDP) King's Indian Defense (KID). They apply to both 9Nd2 and 9b4. Either way, black responds with 9...Ne8 and 10...f5.

Sam Collins, King's Indian Defense Move by Move, chooses 9...Ne8 as his recommended line. Nakamura has done well with it as black. Computer engines also get their say.

It is all very complex. Here is an example:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Be2 O-O 6. Nf3 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. b4 Ne8 10. c5 f5 11. Nd2 Nf6 12. f3 f4 13. Nc4 g5 14. a4 Ng6 15. Ba3 Rf7. 

15...Rf7 is Golubev's main move, pg. 39. His second move is 15...h5. Sam Collins reverses the order. Nakamura won as black with both moves.

16. a5 (Beliavsky and Collins. Golubev for 16 b5.) After 16a5, Nakamura continued with 16...h5 and won. However Collins, quoting engines, later improves for white. So an idea for black is to answer 16a5 with Bf8.

16...Bf8 17. Rc1 h5 18. cd6 cd6 19. b5 g4 20. Qe1 g3 21. b6 ab6 22. Nb6 Ra5 23. Nca4 Ra4 24. Na4 Nh7.

I played to this point with Stockfish 12 and Deep Fritz 13. They disagree in their evaluations. The spread from DF to SF is +2 to -2! Given more time, DF revises it's computation to equal, whereas SF becomes more convinced of Black's advantage.

As far as I can tell, 9...Ne8 remains viable for black.

saubhikr wrote on 02/09/12 at 04:42:48:


To me it seems that the line is a lot of things..like "exciting", "dangerous" etc. What it is not is "robust" or "solid".

Golubev's book has this line in it. I believe there's been at least a post or two about it as well - it gained a bit more recognition after a nice Charbonneau crush:

http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8680/471

I gave it a whirl in the CC game below:

http://www.iccf-webchess.com/MakeAMove.aspx?id=231282

I believe it's also addressed in the El Khalif Kramnik books too.

Finally, some threads here:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1263131510/2#2

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1233681470/0

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1243859307/0

I do not want to play the 9...a5 lines against 9.Nd2. The wish is to play Ne8/f5 etc with standard Kingside attack - my reasons for picking up the KID. 

Bought 2 books by Bologan & Vigorito and both advocates 9...a5 and usually followed by ...c6 etc where in most lines I do not find black doing much in kingside. 

I rather want to follow the recent Nakamura games of ignoring queenside and play all-in in kingside. He beat Gelfand & Beliavsky and it's cannot be a fluke. Must be playabale to say the least.

Can you suggest some materials which may help?