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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) English language (Read 32429 times)
Markovich
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Re: English language
Reply #67 - 06/22/12 at 15:34:09
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Thanks for that info.  Thinking about it, I think the t inside traitor is rather soft in American speech, unless special emphasis is being given.  I think it's part of a general slurring that goes on in American pronunciation.  I don't know enough about it to talk authoritatively.
  

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zoo
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Re: English language
Reply #66 - 06/22/12 at 09:10:19
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When learning English as a foreign language, we tend to pronounce "t" as "t", and when Americans speak, it sounds like they soften the "t" inside words, making it sound like "d" or nothing at all ("").
The trader/traitor is a common example, see for instance http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/68634/are-traitor-and-trader-pronounc...
I heard the Party/Par_A on East & West coasts, but maybe it's a regional accent? I remember Nancy Reagan's G.O.P = "Grain Owl Par A".

As I couldn't hear this in other parts of the world, I asked if it was typical of AE.
  
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Markovich
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Re: English language
Reply #65 - 06/22/12 at 01:13:47
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Quote:
what about the inner "t" sounding between "d" and " ", such as " trader = traitor" or "party = par A" ? it seems ubiquitous in the USA, but not so common outside, so perhaps it denotes American English ?



What?
  

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Re: English language
Reply #64 - 06/21/12 at 22:33:10
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what about the inner "t" sounding between "d" and " ", such as " trader = traitor" or "party = par A" ? it seems ubiquitous in the USA, but not so common outside, so perhaps it denotes American English ?

  
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TalJechin
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Re: English language
Reply #63 - 06/21/12 at 14:53:30
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Markovich wrote on 06/20/12 at 18:04:09:
Do the Germans say anything like "The lawn needs mowed," or "The doorknob needs fixed?"  That is improper English, but it's entirely common in Ohio around Columbus or Cincinnati, two major seats of German immigration.  People from elsewhere do a double-take when they hear it.


It seems to be used in many other places too: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/this-sink-needs-fixed/
  
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Willempie
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Re: English language
Reply #62 - 06/21/12 at 11:45:12
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Jupp53 wrote on 06/21/12 at 10:34:43:
In school I learned the sentence: "Your hair needs cutting badly." Does this sound like an English sentence?

Your teacher was Yoda?  Grin

In my language classes we had a lot of those things that were useless in practice. Worst was in French (as we went there on holiday every year), when you would use those sentences only to get corrected Embarrassed
  

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Re: English language
Reply #61 - 06/21/12 at 11:03:08
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Jupp53 wrote on 06/21/12 at 10:34:43:
In school I learned the sentence: "Your hair needs cutting badly." Does this sound like an English sentence?

Yes, it does. It sounds like it's meant to be a humorous illustration of the need to take care when positioning adverbs ('badly' belongs before 'needs' rather than after 'cutting' to avoid the unintended meaning that your hair needs cutting in a bad way).
  
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Jupp53
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Re: English language
Reply #60 - 06/21/12 at 10:34:43
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"gehört" in the meaning of "belongs to" is acceptable, in the meaning of "has to be put to the right place -- has to be done" sounds old to me. "The doorknob needs fixed" - "Der Türknauf gehört repariert." is something understandable, but a teacher would underline it red. 

In school I learned the sentence: "Your hair needs cutting badly." Does this sound like an English sentence?
  

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Re: English language
Reply #59 - 06/20/12 at 18:21:12
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That sounds somewhat Germanish to me; it puts me in mind of "Er gehört bestraft" (he should be/needs to be punished, but literally "he belongs punished").
  
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Markovich
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Re: English language
Reply #58 - 06/20/12 at 18:04:09
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Do the Germans say anything like "The lawn needs mowed," or "The doorknob needs fixed?"  That is improper English, but it's entirely common in Ohio around Columbus or Cincinnati, two major seats of German immigration.  People from elsewhere do a double-take when they hear it.
  

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Jupp53
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Re: English language
Reply #57 - 06/20/12 at 10:57:58
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TalJechin wrote on 06/19/12 at 14:24:23:

And from the following clip I leant that some 'American words' are actually old English words that had been replaced by newer ones in English. (about 8.50 in, if you don't have 11 minutes...)

Thanks for this instructive link.  Cool
  

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Seeley
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Re: English language
Reply #56 - 06/20/12 at 08:21:52
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kylemeister wrote on 06/20/12 at 03:02:19:
I think it's been theorized that German affected AE in the matter of whether collective nouns take a singular or plural verb -- e.g. AE "the crowd is restless" is in line with German usage, as opposed to BE "the crowd are restless."

Actually, in British English there is no strict rule about this and either a singular or plural verb may be used according to context.  There's a detailed discussion of the topic in 'The Complete Plain Words' (Gowers), in which the need for flexibility is illustrated by the sentences 'The committee leaves its hats in the hall' and 'The committee were smaller when I sat on them', neither of which expresses clearly what is intended.
  
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Re: English language
Reply #55 - 06/20/12 at 03:02:19
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I think it's been theorized that German affected AE in the matter of whether collective nouns take a singular or plural verb -- e.g. AE "the crowd is restless" is in line with German usage, as opposed to BE "the crowd are restless."
  
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Markovich
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Re: English language
Reply #54 - 06/20/12 at 02:39:05
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Stigma wrote on 06/20/12 at 00:58:02:
If I'm allowed to be slightly off topic (for some reason several moderators have adopted a much stricter practice on this recently): 

Is it true that the USA at one point seriously considered adopting German as its official language? I'm not sure if this is history or an urban legend. To think that this discussion could have been about whose German is more authentic and widespread!  Smiley

As far as I know, and perhaps surprisingly, the U.S. doesn't have an official language today.


I dunno how true that is, but I do know that at one time German was the second most widely spoken language in the U.S.   There were German language newspapers throughout the Ohio Valley and Great Lakes, and in the East as well.  During the civil war, German regiments formed an entire corps in the Union army (three divisions).  German immigrants, organized into private political militias, were mainly responsible for Missouri remaining in the Union.  The south-facing slopes of the Ohio Valley around Cincinnati were once devoted to the production of German-style wine.  Throughout the Midwest there are many splendid surviving examples of  German brick churches; more like cathedrals, really.

The anti-German riots of 1917, unfortunately, wiped out all vestiges of German culture.  Just here in Columbus, Germans were chased out of their houses, street names were changed, and a statue of Schiller was torn down.  (Decades later it was found in a warehouse and restored to its original location).  German newspapers ceased publication.  Lots of Muellers became Millers.  But there are, I believe, some peculiarly German-sounding word-orders used in the English of the Midwest.
  

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Stigma
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Re: English language
Reply #53 - 06/20/12 at 00:58:02
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If I'm allowed to be slightly off topic (for some reason several moderators have adopted a much stricter practice on this recently): 

Is it true that the USA at one point seriously considered adopting German as its official language? I'm not sure if this is history or an urban legend. To think that this discussion could have been about whose German is more authentic and widespread!  Smiley

As far as I know, and perhaps surprisingly, the U.S. doesn't have an official language today.
  

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