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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy (Read 41985 times)
MNb
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #25 - 04/02/12 at 21:54:35
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Vass wrote on 04/02/12 at 20:50:29:
And in this moment I see how he loses his interest

Then you know he's not ready for stuff like that. As soon as you see this you should immediately stop.
2.d4 is just fine for him. Be honest though - tell him that it's a good move, but not the best one and why you still want him to play it (comparable with driving a car is faster than driving a bike, but he can't learn that either - yet).
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #24 - 04/02/12 at 21:07:05
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/02/12 at 20:22:24:
He is playing in Plovdiv, is that the same tournament that has the super-GMs playing last week? What section in Plovdiv?

Yeah, he participated in a parallel tournament for kids to the European Championship in Plovdiv a week ago. ..And on Friday we'll travel to Plovdiv again for the official Bulgarian Individual Championship for boys under 8 which will take place in the same playing halls in Novotel Plovdiv. There I would definitely be a witness to all kind of opening moves after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 from his side.. And I expect the full range of 3.d4, 3.Bc4, 3.Bb5 or 3.Nc3 - hoping for no others..  Roll Eyes
That's why I think he needs a kind of a small repertoire (a number of opening moves) - call it what you will..  Wink
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #23 - 04/02/12 at 20:50:29
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I think Spanish is too complex for him for now.. You know, all these variations 3...Bc5, 3...d6, 3...Nf6, 3...a6 - not to mention that  Bc5, d6, Nf6 and even Nge7, g6 or f5 can be played on the fourth move after 3...a6. That's why I decided to show him some opening moves that are more suitable for him to comprehend. 2.d4 - open the game!, 3.Nf3 - give me the pawn back!, 4.Bc4 - fast development, bishop after knight...preparing for castling!, 5.0-0 - hiding the king faster than the opponent's one in an open game and 6.Re1 - rook on the open line against the opponent's king and so on..and so on..
For example, showing him 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bc5 provokes his question "And what if 3...Nf6?" On which I start to explain "If 3...Nf6 then you have to play 4.0-0 because 4.c3 is not good in that case.." And in this moment I see how he loses his interest about all of this because of the fact that he just can't memorize all of the moves or ideas.. And even if the teaching process goes smoothly and you think that all of this is somehow comprehended by him...in his next game he plays 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 and after 3...Nd4 he is "out of book" and therefore out of confidence..  Roll Eyes
That's what I mean - Ruy Lopez seems too complex for a beginner.  Undecided
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #22 - 04/02/12 at 20:38:25
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Beginning players learn opening theory best by playing first, analysing second, and only later looking up what other players have done in similar positions. 

Most seven and eight year olds don't really do well researching. Let them play and help them to analyse without too much emphasis on "repertoire".
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #21 - 04/02/12 at 20:22:24
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He is playing in Plovdiv, is that the same tournament that has the super-GMs playing last week? What section in Plovdiv?

And I think his opponents have quite some knowledge of openings based on his games. I think you should just teach the Spanish main line but not overemphasising all of the theory. The first 6-7 moves of the Sicilian lines and perhaps the same for the French and Caro-Kann. If he wants to learn slightly more about openings that would be fine too, since he seems to already have opening knowledge.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #20 - 04/02/12 at 20:17:32
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Well, I posted three of his recent games here in this thread..  Wink
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #19 - 04/02/12 at 20:14:40
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Vass wrote on 04/02/12 at 19:34:29:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/02/12 at 19:03:40:
When I was that age my first repertoire was the Spanish Main Line: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 0-0 8. c3 d6 9. h3. You can try to teach that, or the Exchange Variation. Who is he playing against? If Sicilian, play Open Sicilian; 3. Nc3 against French and Caro-Kann. The principal main ideas for the first few moves are probably all he needs to know.

Isn't it a little too much for a 7-year old boy?  Shocked


Is he playing in tournaments? What rating is he, around 1400/1500? If his opponents are his rating, I doubt you need to teach theory, just simple main ideas and verbal explanations for the initial few moves should suffice. At least this is how my father taught me at that age.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #18 - 04/02/12 at 20:02:13
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I agree completely with Willempie.

If you can find it, look for Larry Evans' explanation of the first moves of the Spanish. I have used his explanation to teach the Spanish to players of all ages, and it works! I think it was originally published in Chess Life, and then in How to Open a Chess Game. It should be available online too.

By explaining the reasoning behind each move, and spending the time to go over the tactics at each stage, you are giving your student a platform from which he can try all sorts of different ideas.

But again, I do not teach this as a repertoire. Instead, I teach it as a way to analyse and thing about the game. h3 makes sense to a beginner once you explain that Black would love to develop his B to g4, and if you stop that he won't have many good squares for the B.
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #17 - 04/02/12 at 19:45:49
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Vass wrote on 04/02/12 at 18:59:51:

Thanks, Willempie!
And yet, I have to be careful.. I noticed that some of his opponents (usually a little older than him) play some good opening moves i.e. they have a little repertoire. So a 7-year old boy can quickly lose his interest in chess if he loses too many games against such 'opening experts'.  Wink

He'll pick it up when you go over the games with him. I am always amazed at what those kids "get" when you sit with them like that.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #16 - 04/02/12 at 19:34:29
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/02/12 at 19:03:40:
When I was that age my first repertoire was the Spanish Main Line: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 0-0 8. c3 d6 9. h3. You can try to teach that, or the Exchange Variation. Who is he playing against? If Sicilian, play Open Sicilian; 3. Nc3 against French and Caro-Kann. The principal main ideas for the first few moves are probably all he needs to know.

Isn't it a little too much for a 7-year old boy?  Shocked
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #15 - 04/02/12 at 19:03:40
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When I was that age my first repertoire was the Spanish Main Line: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 0-0 8. c3 d6 9. h3. You can try to teach that, or the Exchange Variation. Who is he playing against? If Sicilian, play Open Sicilian; 3. Nc3 against French and Caro-Kann. The principal main ideas for the first few moves are probably all he needs to know.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #14 - 04/02/12 at 18:59:51
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Willempie wrote on 04/02/12 at 16:59:22:
If you want your boy to lose interest in chess, than one of the surest ways is to start with a repertoire. At that age, I would limit any opening theory to the general rules. Usually at that age they can make quick progress and even more motivation from "direct applicable" practice.

Thanks, Willempie!
And yet, I have to be careful.. I noticed that some of his opponents (usually a little older than him) play some good opening moves i.e. they have a little repertoire. So a 7-year old boy can quickly lose his interest in chess if he loses too many games against such 'opening experts'.  Wink
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #13 - 04/02/12 at 18:43:12
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Thank you, MNb!
He explained 13.Rac1 with his intention to push c3-c4..  Grin
I was amazed that he had tried to create a plan and didn't object too much.  Wink
(Though I made my remarks on it, of course..)  Cool
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #12 - 04/02/12 at 18:24:27
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TN wrote on 04/02/12 at 12:48:22:
I think it would be better to use a 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 ed4 4.Bc4 move order,

I disagree. The Philidor allows Black to keep the position closed. I would prefer 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Bc4 though and after 3...Nc6 4.Nf3 Bc5 (or Nf6 5.O-O Bc5 6.c3) 5.c3 Nf6 6.O-O. The problem of Black's extra options is not urgent on a beginner's level; what matters is to open the centre.
Otherwise I agree with TN that it might be wise to wait a bit with presenting a repertoire and first focus on tactics and elementary endgames.

TN wrote on 04/02/12 at 14:35:42:
Black has more than one way to fully equalise, but he has to be accurate. That's straying a bit from the thread topic though.

Indeed, that should not be a concern. When it becomes it's time for a more serious repertoire anyway.
Here the only relevant question is: does the opening choice allow the beginner to apply all those nice tactics he learns? To develop all pieces smoothly? Thát should be decisive.
And indeed, if he deviates, don't worry, unless his choices are bad, you can explain why ánd can give him better options (I refer to 13.Rac1).
But you should discourage the Italian Four Knights. There is stuff that's so much more exciting!

PANFR wrote on 04/02/12 at 16:02:21:
1.e4 e5 2.d4 ed4 3.Nf3 Bb4+ 4.c3 dc3 5.Nxc3 Bxc3+ 6.dc3 Ne7 has been known as an effortless equalizer since the stone age.

That's not relevant either for a beginner.

Vass wrote on 04/02/12 at 17:04:20:
So you think that it's too early to try teaching him to a repertoire?!

There is a difference between showing a few tactical opening lines he might use in practice and offering a complete and consistent repertoire.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #11 - 04/02/12 at 17:04:20
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/02/12 at 16:40:29:
I would not be teaching a 7 year old to think in terms of a repertoire. Instead, I would encourage him to  play open positions looking for forcing lines. 

I tell my young students not to worry about what name an opening has. If it's a good opening, chances are that it has a name, but that shouldn't guide my student. Your examples are an excellent illustration of this. 

Rather than impose a repertoire, have your student analyse his own games thoroughly and learn to see the forcing lines.

So you think that it's too early to try teaching him to a repertoire?!  Embarrassed
I thought about it, too.. But, I was not sure.
I appreciate your opinion, Smyslov_Fan! Thank you!  Cool
  
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