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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy (Read 41962 times)
Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #55 - 06/10/12 at 18:48:56
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I did not say abstract thinking, I was referring to the openings which a player at that age plays. My coach never taught me to always play 1...e5 or 1...d5 when I was 9, in fact a few months after I started taking lessons at age 9 to 10, I stopped playing 1...e5 and switched to Sicilian. Shortly after around age 11, I switched from 1...d5 to other openings. I am not deficient in tactics that I cannot play tactical positions, or right now I would not have crossed 2200 or have the Najdorf in my repertoire right now. My coach taught me the Sicilian at around age 9 since it seemed at that moment I enjoyed playing the opening and I succeeded with it. I played the Sicilian as my main defence against 1. e4 until now from when I was around 9 years old. Not everyone has a coach that will tell them to play 1...e5 or 1...d5.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #54 - 06/10/12 at 10:04:58
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 06/10/12 at 07:16:11:
It probably depends on the player and the player's style. .



No. Abstract thinking does not depends on player style. Abstract thinking is something what is characteristic for adoults, not for little kids.
Abstract thinking is developed rapidly from 10-12 yo and not before that. As a pedagog i know what I'm saying.

Ask any russian coach and they will say that everyone on this lecel should play e5 and d5. And not without reason. In e5 and d5 you have much more positions than in any sicilian (not to mention french which is very one-dimensional opening). In e5 you can have atack on f7 point, you can have calm staregic games and many different pawn structures. This is the reason why kids should play e5 and d5 - to learn many kind of positions and to learn how to play in symetrical pawn centre.  French, caro, KID - to play such openings player should have certain experience and strategical knowlege. Little kids are weak in strategy and strong in tactics. Before you run you need to know how to walk and this is the reason why e5 and d5 are the best for youn ambitious players.

Regards
M.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #53 - 06/10/12 at 07:16:11
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It probably depends on the player and the player's style. Not everyone in that category is bad at strategy. There are players who are good at strategy that one might not expect, and plays well strategical openings. Also there are those who play and have results better at other openings than 1...e5 or 1...d5; when I was around age 9 I did better with the Sicilian Kan and QGA or Benoni than 1...e5 and 1...d5; actually I think the highest percentage of wins opening that I have ever played in chess was the Sicilian Kan, which I learnt very early in my career. I do not think one can say all players at that age are only good at tactics and bad at strategy, as it would be similar as saying that all 10 year olds cannot learn trigonometry or (and/or?!) five foreign languages; it certainly is possible regardless of whether there is a majority that cannot.

My first tournament game at age 9 was when I played 1...e5 and I basically lost in 12 moves; I can remember that game very clearly even though it was quite a long time ago, because I had a lost position probably around move 9. 1...e5 simply did not suit me even at age 9, even though it might be a good opening for others at that age. So my coach had me to learn a new opening instead of 1...e5 eventually.

Even if the player is good at tactics, the Sicilian and Benoni are very tactical, probably even more than 1...e5 or 1...d5. If you want serious tactics, then there is also Botvinnik Semi-Slav or Dragon.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #52 - 06/10/12 at 05:51:57
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Topic is about 8 yo kid not 16. Small kids can't understand closed and semi-closed positions. That's why they should play e5 and d5 : to learn classical positions. In e5 games they will learn about central control with pawns and attack on f7.

Young players are very good at tactics, but not at strategy. This is because abstract thinking is developing since 10-11 years old. Before that, they think in different categories and cannot understand complicated position manouvring which occurs after KID, Gurgenidze, French and so on !
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #51 - 06/09/12 at 20:17:02
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When he was around 16 he beat a few GMs with the Gurgenidze, with the line with f4 h5 and Black playing ...Bg4/Bxf3/Nh6/Nf5/e6/Qb6/Nd7, as I remember when I was playing in the same tournaments and watching his games. The GMs would agree that he should not play the Gurgenidze--but only so that they would not have lost to him probably Smiley

My coach taught me the King's Indian at age 13 during weekly lessons and it was a good opening for me at that time. He also taught me the Sicilian Kan and Winawer systems such as 4...Ne7/4...b6/4...Qd7, and it helped me with my positional understanding. My coach never forced me to play certain openings, in fact he encouraged me to keep learning new ones to my repertoire when I was around that age, and I had the same coach from approximately age 9 to 20.

And I think the French and Nimzo-Indian are considered "normal openings", no?
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #50 - 06/09/12 at 19:23:49
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They achieved 2200 but maybe can more if they play NORMAL OPENINGS. I have a lot of experience in coaching kids who are the best in my country under 8 and 10 and they main advantage is that they play e5 and d5. This opening will learn you classical chess. 8 yo kid should NOT play modern gurgenidze simply because he cannot understand it. Period!
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #49 - 06/09/12 at 18:58:30
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Ender wrote on 06/09/12 at 18:54:58:


This is not nice at all! Anone who is suggesting french defence for very young players don't know too much about chess training! Young players should play e5 against 1.e4 and d5 against 1.d4 and not such closed positions as in french defence. To play french you need to have certain positional understanding and 8 y.o kid does not have such!

I played the Sicilian Kan and QGA when I was 9 year old and played in the junior tournaments. It was not detrimental for me..

One must understand that not all players are the same, and some might have a better understanding at a few years younger than the average. There is a reason why some 12 year olds can better understand calculus than a 16 year old in A-levels.

My friends in those tournaments also played other openings. Thehy were the same age as I, and one of my friends when I was around 10 years old played the Sicilian Dragon and Benoni at age 10. My other friend at that time played the French and Nimzo Indian. I also had a friend at that time who continuously and obstinately played the Gurgenidze Modern Defence against 1. e4 and 1...g6 against everything else. They all achieved 2200 FIDE around age 14-15 with those openings.

Eventually when I was aorund 14 I asked my friend who played the Gurgenidze, "Why do you keep playing this opening?" and he responded something approximately as, "It works for me."
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #48 - 06/09/12 at 18:54:58
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Willempie wrote on 04/05/12 at 09:35:02:


Btw this is a nice introductory PDF http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/x/FTP/JuniorRepertoire.pdf



This is not nice at all! Anone who is suggesting french defence for very young players don't know too much about chess training! Young players should play e5 against 1.e4 and d5 against 1.d4 and not such closed positions as in french defence. To play french you need to have certain positional understanding and 8 y.o kid does not have such!
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #47 - 06/09/12 at 13:23:05
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I am with all those who have warned against bothering with repertoires. Unless the modern pubescent has chanced in the last five to seven years (maybe even more), they usually have the attention span of a meth addict after 16 cups of coffee and it is all about instant gratification. If you try and blind them with too much science with out them understanding any of the concepts, they will get bored and lose interest. If you want to look at openings I would suggest looking into single concept openings like 1.b4, 1.b3 or 1.f4 and get them to first understand what they are doing and to understand what they are trying to achieve with the opening and so forth.
HTH
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #46 - 04/05/12 at 10:09:42
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I'll check it.. Thanks! Smiley
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #45 - 04/05/12 at 09:35:02
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SWJediknight wrote on 04/05/12 at 00:22:34:
It was a two-volume series, the first focused on absolute beginners and had very little opening theory, while the second (which introduced the above lines) was aimed more at developing players.

I think Dr. Dave's site at Exeter Chess Club also offers some useful tips on opening repertoires for developing players.

The 2nd book is indeed very good. It touches just enough on the openings in order to understand what you are doing. Iirc he indeed suggests to play openings with Bc4 or with d4 as a gambit and switch between them. The kings gambit, Scotch and the Ruy he finds that you need more experience first.

Btw this is a nice introductory PDF http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/x/FTP/JuniorRepertoire.pdf
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #44 - 04/05/12 at 09:12:38
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We all have our choices.. Someone earlier in this thread suggested Scotch Four Knights. Well, this one can easily become my second choice for a 7 year old boy. And maybe it is the sounder approach than the Scotch Gambit. After all, it is the first choice of no other than the well respected trainer, Adrian Michalcishin.
And 'Hacker' said here that the boy has to be presented a number of openings (on a proper level and not all at once) to let him to choose from.  Wink
Maybe this is the best way.. First to present him the Scotch Gambit, two months after - The Scotch game, then Italian and Two Knights...going all the way to the Ruy Lopez.  Cool
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #43 - 04/05/12 at 00:22:34
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It was a two-volume series, the first focused on absolute beginners and had very little opening theory, while the second (which introduced the above lines) was aimed more at developing players.

I think Dr. Dave's site at Exeter Chess Club also offers some useful tips on opening repertoires for developing players.
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #42 - 04/04/12 at 15:06:10
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SWJediknight wrote on 04/04/12 at 13:03:27:
I own a beginner's book by C'H'O'D Alexander and T.J.Beach that took the wide-ranging approach, recommending the Giuoco Piano (main line, 7.Bd2 and 7.Nc3 were offered), Two Knights Defence (4.Ng5 and 4.d4 were offered), Evans Gambit, King's Gambit and Vienna Game, and suggesting that the Scotch and Petroff were with an occasional game.  For Black they generally recommended declining gambits with an early ...d5, e.g. 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5 4.exd5 Nf6, the Modern Defence to the King's Gambit, and 4.Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 d6 7.Qb3 Qd7 8.dxe5 Bb6 (returning the pawn) against the Evans.

I don't think there is necessarily a 'best' approach but I would agree with the suggestion of presenting multiple openings.  The Scotch Gambit (interestingly not even mentioned in the Alexander and Beach book) is a good choice for juniors (and indeed at most levels of play- it's even been used successfully at GM level recently by Gawain Jones), but there are plenty of other suitable choices.


All quite excellent choices for developing players.  I don't know if beginners need much opening knowledge, though.
  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #41 - 04/04/12 at 13:03:27
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I own a beginner's book by C'H'O'D Alexander and T.J.Beach that took the wide-ranging approach, recommending the Giuoco Piano (main line, 7.Bd2 and 7.Nc3 were offered), Two Knights Defence (4.Ng5 and 4.d4 were offered), Evans Gambit, King's Gambit and Vienna Game, and suggesting that the Scotch and Petroff were with an occasional game.  For Black they generally recommended declining gambits with an early ...d5, e.g. 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5 4.exd5 Nf6, the Modern Defence to the King's Gambit, and 4.Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 d6 7.Qb3 Qd7 8.dxe5 Bb6 (returning the pawn) against the Evans.

I don't think there is necessarily a 'best' approach but I would agree with the suggestion of presenting multiple openings.  The Scotch Gambit (interestingly not even mentioned in the Alexander and Beach book) is a good choice for juniors (and indeed at most levels of play- it's even been used successfully at GM level recently by Gawain Jones), but there are plenty of other suitable choices.
  
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