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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy (Read 41935 times)
Vass
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #70 - 02/27/14 at 19:10:17
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Seraph wrote on 02/27/14 at 19:03:04:
The first few moves allow pieces to be developed on optimal squares. I like that. I'm no theory hound, but I do like active piece play - it gives me more options.

That was exactly the point of this repertoire.  Wink
  
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Seraph
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #69 - 02/27/14 at 19:03:04
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The first few moves allow pieces to be developed on optimal squares. I like that. I'm no theory hound, but I do like active piece play - it gives me more options.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #68 - 02/27/14 at 12:40:58
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I remember that as a junior when I was first shown the line with 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3, I was attracted to the "visual" nature of the line and it helped stimulate my interest in chess.  Stefan Bücker and Lev Gutman have also demonstrated recently that it isn't as drawish as its reputation, except perhaps at grandmaster level.

I think that for most players a repertoire like the above, with a few tweaks here and there, can serve as a repertoire for life.  I have reached a high club standard and still have some of those lines in my anti-1...e5 repertoire and numerous closely-related lines (4...Bc5 5.c3 Nf6 6.0-0 instead of 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nc3, and 4.c3, as some lines of the Scotch Gambit are very closely related to the Göring Gambit.)  Of course this may not be the case for the minority who progress to near IM strength or above, who will typically get better results with the Ruy Lopez or the standard Scotch Game with Nxd4.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #67 - 02/27/14 at 08:41:32
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Kids tend to have fantastic memories. When I teach opening principles, I make sure not to use too many one-trick, trappy openings because they will remember the exact move order even if that's not what I was trying to show the kids. So, I teach tactics from classic opening lines such as the Spanish or Two Knights. 

Kids learn what you teach them, even if you're not aware that you are teaching them! So yes, I do believe that a 7-8 year old will learn a repertoire. Just make sure it's one with a solid foundation.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #66 - 02/27/14 at 01:32:01
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What's the purpose of teaching an almost beginner theoretical lines?

Surely a program of mastering fundamentals such as: Opening Principles, mating patterns, basic endgame knowledge, and of course playing a lot, is a tried and proven method of developing very young players, and perhaps not so young players as well.

When the fundamentals become more second nature, one can begin reinforcing them by introducing the player to other tactical elements and motifs, making sure to link them to the Mating patterns and other fundamental knowledge already learned. Pattern recognition is an indispensable skill for a budding chess player, and it needs to be developed early and robustly. Well developed pattern recognition acts like a trigger that often helps you intuitively sense critical moments in a game, which often eases calculation, and heightens your sense of danger. I once knew a talented self taught amateur player, with a gift for tactics, who missed a standard Greek Bishop sacrifice against his castled King simply because it was not part of his basic chess education and consequently never triggered his 'spider' sense. 

As the student becomes more proficient with what he's learned so far, its time to acquaint them with the basic elements and features of Pawn Structures, and once again, link it to what already has been taught. Pawn structure is an integral part of Middle and Endgame play so the student needs to have a good working knowledge of what the basic structures are, and how they impact the ensuing play.   

Of course I have only scratched the surface of how to go about teaching and developing a young player, but I think I have touched upon most of the important stuff. The main take away to bare in mind, is that teaching opening theory to beginners by rote, before they fully understand and appreciate the principles underlying sound Opening play, can be a very dangerous and counter productive proposition.    

Regards,

Toppy Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Seraph
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #65 - 02/26/14 at 21:58:13
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Vass wrote on 04/02/12 at 12:19:35:
I intend to teach my 7 year and a half old son to the following 1.e4 e5 opening repertoire for white:


I would like to stress that this repertoire is aimed for an almost beginner who doesn't know more than 4-5 opening moves up to date. And the teaching process would be long, not less than 3 months or so..
My intentions are to let the boy play an open tactical game with free piece development, thus cultivating the knowledge for the importance of chess tempos. I want to present him an 1.e4 e5 repertoire which doesn't pretend for an advantage, but for soundness. My aim is to avoid the strategical positions after say 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 (Bc5) 4.d3.. I feel my other choices can be Ruy Lopez Exchange 4.Bxc6 (good for starting with Spanish, but not too good for opening the position and with too much strategy in it...and what's more giving the bishop pair  Wink), the classical Four Knights (too closed in my opinion) or the Scotch Game (not so tactical and too much theory for a small boy)..
So I pled my case.., any opinions?


I like it. I may start using it.
  
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chandrashekharkoravi
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #64 - 02/26/14 at 19:56:58
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For sicilian I would recommend c3 as doesn't have much theory...against french play ed exchange variation and play normal game
  
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Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #63 - 06/11/12 at 16:12:27
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/02/12 at 19:03:40:
When I was that age my first repertoire was the Spanish Main Line: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 0-0 8. c3 d6 9. h3. You can try to teach that, or the Exchange Variation. Who is he playing against? If Sicilian, play Open Sicilian; 3. Nc3 against French and Caro-Kann. The principal main ideas for the first few moves are probably all he needs to know.

If you examine the full quote this was my white repertoire; the Spanish Main Line with 9. h3 was what I played as White, along with Open Sicilian. I was advocating these openings as White, also indcating that 9. h3 is mostly what he would need to remember, and the first few moves of Open Sicilian of each Sicilian, the first few moves of the 3. Nc3 French (first few meaning around 7-8).

I used to play Chigorin as Black for at most one year when starting chess, then switched to Sicilian when taking lessons from a coach, and have played Sicilian since then.
« Last Edit: 06/11/12 at 18:53:50 by Gilchrist is a legend »  

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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #62 - 06/11/12 at 15:42:43
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The idea of a 7/8-year-old playing/aiming to play as White a line in which White takes 12 moves to develop 4 pieces, and which is based on ideas such as leaving Black with perhaps one minor piece more than can be comfortably accommodated within his structure, seems rather curious.
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #61 - 06/11/12 at 15:13:18
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/02/12 at 19:03:40:
When I was that age my first repertoire was the Spanish Main Line: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 0-0 8. c3 d6 9. h3. You can try to teach that, or the Exchange Variation. ...The principal main ideas for the first few moves are probably all he needs to know.



Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 06/09/12 at 18:58:30:


I played the Sicilian Kan and QGA when I was 9 year old and played in the junior tournaments. It was not detrimental for me..



I had to double-check to make sure this was indeed the same person making both quotes. 

The majority of players here agree that the first opening a player should learn is 1.e4 e5 and not worry about a "repertoire", even Gilchrist!  

When a player should switch from 1.e4 e5 is a much more difficult question. Clearly there are exceptional young people who grasp abstractions incredibly early. Magnus Carlsen obviously did, and so have quite a few other grandmasters. It's not  unheard of, just extremely rare. So it's up to the coaches, parents and students to determine when an individual is ready to make that switch.
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #60 - 06/11/12 at 15:04:42
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This is getting farther and farther away from C44. I'll be sending the general chess content to the General Chess section in ~12 hours or so when I get back to my home computer.
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #59 - 06/11/12 at 09:15:24
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I think for that age you dont really have a "repertoire" as such. From what I remember as a kid we would be shown some interesting exciting line that would get us interested, and some of us would be able to remember the line (just the main moves - any deviations and we were on our own!)
  
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #58 - 06/11/12 at 08:16:22
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Ender wrote on 06/09/12 at 18:54:58:
Willempie wrote on 04/05/12 at 09:35:02:


Btw this is a nice introductory PDF http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/x/FTP/JuniorRepertoire.pdf



This is not nice at all! Anone who is suggesting french defence for very young players don't know too much about chess training! Young players should play e5 against 1.e4 and d5 against 1.d4 and not such closed positions as in french defence. To play french you need to have certain positional understanding and 8 y.o kid does not have such!

How 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 is closed and 1d4 d5 is not is beyond me.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #57 - 06/10/12 at 22:46:09
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I think that was the topic--that whilst some succeed with 1...e5/1...d5, there are some, including me and my friends who played in the same tournaments as I did, who from the beginning of our careers, played other openings. The other posts above said that my friends and I would have performed better with 1...e5 or 1...d5, but in my case, I performed quite badly with 1...e5, and I doubt in their particular cases they would have had better results. Of course if the others do well with 1...e5 than other openings when they are 8-9 years old, then that is good too. But there will always be exceptions to this rule.

I think the bloke who used to play the Gurgenidze and 1...g6 against everything else still plays it until now too Smiley
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Re: C44: White repertoire for a 7-8 year old boy
Reply #56 - 06/10/12 at 22:30:03
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At the risk of prolonging round two of a fight that's already been fought...

Gilchrist, your one data point does not disprove the general assertion that young players should play open positions, answer e4 with e5, d4 with d5, etc.  It's generally true that children should play in that way.  It's also true that someone can not play in that way and still turn out to be a good player.

Keep in mind that most of the children we teach have little to no talent for the game.  In that case, it's incumbent upon us to use best practices to wring what talent exists out!  Broadly speaking, the 'Markovich doctrine' is best practice.  Your experience worked out ok for you, and that's great, but understand that you're an exception to the rule and not the invalidation of that rule.

Can we please put this to bed now?
  
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