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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) When do players start learning "exotic" endgames? (Read 21653 times)
Chessexplained
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Re: When do players start learning "exotic" endgames?
Reply #3 - 04/26/12 at 14:24:53
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I think it certainly doesnt hurt to know the exotic ones, but you rarely get them. In more than 20 years of competitive chess I only got R+B vs. R once (Bishop side) and KN mate once (defender, ugh.. he managed on move 48). KN is also quite easy to learn. Funny enough I got that recently in a 1 min +1 sec per move game and won...just a few days later I had it as defender in the same time control and lost  Cheesy - quite a coincidence.
  
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dfan
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Re: When do players start learning "exotic" endgames?
Reply #2 - 04/26/12 at 13:42:22
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I'm 1900 USCF. I've done KBN vs K enough that I could win it if I had 10 minutes on my clock; I'm not sure if I could do it in 50 moves if I were playing totally on a 5-second increment. (I didn't really learn it until I had already gotten to this rating; I was only forced to because I got my endgame rating on Chess Tempo up to the point where it was being served to me.)

I wouldn't have a chance with any of your other endgames except KQ vs KR, where I know the Philidor position. so I'd probably be able to finish off the win if I were already almost there. But if my opponent had already set up a good defense, I doubt I'd get anywhere.
  
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TN
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Re: When do players start learning "exotic" endgames?
Reply #1 - 04/26/12 at 13:14:18
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B + N vs. K: I could win that without thinking.

R + B vs. R: I'm confident I could draw from the inferior side. However from the stronger side, I'm not convinced I would fully exploit any inaccuracies by the opponent.

N + N vs. P: This endgame is actually quite easy, but a lot of strong players really screw it up because they don't use common sense. 

B + B vs. N: I've seen the endgame a couple of times in Flear's book that you mentioned so I feel I could play it well (for a human anyway). 

Q vs. R: Against a human I'm certain I would win. But against a tablebase I'm almost certain I wouldn't.

The average Super-GM probably wouldn't 'know' how to win the B+B vs. N endgame, but I doubt that would stop them making consistently good moves (unless they are in serious time trouble). 

Studying these endgames are a bit like studying some middlegame positions - you may never get them on the board, but they teach you how the pieces function, which rubs off on everything else.
  

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Zwischenzugzwang
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When do players start learning "exotic" endgames?
04/26/12 at 13:00:06
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Hello everybody,

I had a discussion with a club mate about which "exotic" endgames one should learn when improving. By this term I mean subjects like B + N vs. K (o.k., that's not very exotic), R + B vs. R, N + N vs. P, B + B vs. N, but also more common cases like Q vs. R and so on.

I once learned B + N vs. K, when I was about 1600 DWZ, but in the meantime I've forgotten most of it, so if I'd face that endgame tomorrow, I'd probably have to agree to a draw  Embarrassed. Hopefully, I will have refreshed my memory before something like that happens!!

But what are your experiences with that? Would you be able to play successfully some of the aforementioned endgames, if your opponent knows what to do? If yes, at what rating did you learn them? What do those of you who work as chess coaches recommend to your students?
Glenn Flear writes somewhere in his "Practical Endgame Play" that once he was very surprised that his opponent with appr. 2200 ELO managed to mate him in a few minutes with B + N. His opponent explained to him after the game that he had had that same endgame just two weeks before, and that that was the reason for him to know it. So it doesn't seem too common for players under, say, 2000 or 2200 ELO to master B + N vs. K?
What about Q vs. R or R + B vs. R? Have you ever spent time studying it or do you trust your ability to play it without special preparation?
Would the "average Super-GM" know how to play B + B vs. N?

Best regards,

Zwischenzugzwang
  

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