Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/01/12 at 00:44:08:



It depends.

If a person is sitting in front of you the whole time that is one thing but if they remove themselves from one's view, all bets are off. So I think it is not a great analogy to this present situation being discussed.

And except for that Annad Petroff video, I have never seen someone take more than a minute in a 5 minute game in the opening.

It's a highly unusual thing to do.

Perceptions are powerful.   

In real world otb chess it is very rare for someone my rating to follow book lines 20 moves deep but on ICC it happens all the time.  There must be some reason why and and a simply application of Occam's razor would seem to suggest the reason.

TN wrote on 04/30/12 at 23:59:01:


Well of course I would suspect consulting a database before a book.  Again I'm not saying it is beyond a doubt certain.  I just find it somewhat suspicious that at the critical juncture in my game, a position White simply *must* know if he plays the variation, he takes a minute, then comes up with the book response.  A minute is plenty of time to find out what the book move is from chessbase.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/30/12 at 23:25:11:



was more than a minute...not seconds....that's a long think in the opening stages of a five minute interweb game ... 

I have to say I don't find this suspicious at all - probably because I do it! I play blitz on FICS specifically to practice openings so I often sink into thought early on trying to remember the lines and the reasons for them. I lose a lot on time but I don't care about the results so much - this is just practice drills.

On only one occasion, have I been fairly sure my opponent was cheating. I have reached the tabiya on move 18 of the 8...Nbd7 Taimanov Benoni 25 times over the last few years (with a 66% score from there as black, by the way). Those who play this line will know exactly what I mean, for everyone else it is a critical position with slightly unusual material, exposed kings, and several plausible ways for white to proceed. Move 18 may seem awfully deep for a fairly obscure line but I am not at all suspicious of someone getting there with white after some thought - you do have to remember some non-obvious moves but there are also some forcing sequences. In fact, given that is the critical position of the whole line, I am slightly surprised more games don't get to it. 

In the cheating incident, we reached this position but white more or less immediately went wrong and quickly lost. He challenged me to another game with the same colors and we rattled off the first 17 moves and this time he played something better but again, soon went wrong and lost. He challenged me again. Same tabiya but this time something different - better but not necessarily the best and not at all obvious.  I just resigned. I can play against my own computer. I have studied this position for many years and I know an engine line when I see it here.

Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 04/30/12 at 19:01:40:


yeah exactly. He was probably trying to think of what exactly that line was. Maybe he had a feeling it was between a3 or some other move that was part of a different variation or move order etc., it's a very common scenario. 

Or as was suggested maybe he was distracted. Someone could have called or asked him something. Sometimes the dog has done something or he is taking something off the cooker. The fact that he took a significant amount of time at a certain move is hardly evidence that he was cheating. 

TalJechin wrote on 04/30/12 at 15:12:08:


Sometimes those quick wins are neither quick nor a waste of time.  Take the Noah's Ark trap for instance -- so you've won a piece for 2 pawns, now how do you win this won position?  In the following I spent nearly two minutes to find one of a few good ways to keep the most advantage, but even then it took me another 50+ moves to win beyond any dispute, i.e. promoting a pawn:

1. e4 {0:14:59} e5 {0:14:58} 
2. Nf3 {0:14:57} Nc6 {0:14:57} 
3. Bb5 {0:14:56} a6 {0:14:55} 
4. Ba4 {0:14:55} d6 {0:14:53} 
5. d4 {0:14:53} b5 {0:14:51} 
6. Bb3 {0:14:46} Nxd4 {0:14:50} 
7. Nxd4 {0:14:45} exd4 {0:14:49} 
8. Qxd4 {0:14:43} c5 {0:14:47} 
9. Qd5 {0:14:42} Be6 {0:14:46} 
10. Qc6+ {0:14:38} Bd7 {0:14:45} 
11. Qd5 {0:14:20} c4 {0:14:44} 
12. Bxc4 {0:14:19} bxc4 {0:14:43}
13. Qxc4 {0:14:19} Qa5+ {0:13:02}

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck.

My personal default for online play is that everyone is using assistance.  I have seen interfaces that even allow engine assisted moves in 1 minute games.

I usually play 5+0 and don't mind if they consult a book on the opening moves. I'd rather have a hard game in a ML than an easy win due to bad memory on my opponent's part - when you play online mainly for training or not getting too rusty then the easy quick wins are mostly a waste time.