Personally I find it distressing when people come here and sweepingly dismiss  as "cheating" certain behaviors that not everyone would condemn. I find it particularly obnoxious when the topic header is used to do this.  For myself, I could care less that someone playing blitz online takes his moves from a book.

Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/02/12 at 20:58:38:


I'm going to nit-pick here and point out I never said that 10...Qc7 is "a very rare move" but rather "out of style".  7. Bc4 players are probably booked up for 10...Bg4.

ErictheRed wrote on 05/02/12 at 21:04:35:


I think people are allowed to decide for themselves how seriously to take anything.    I think it is just fine if someone wants to make online blitz their raison'd'etre and fine if someone does not.


But cheating is a betrayal of the trust between players.  Period.  

Regardless of where it happens and regardless of the stakes.  On some levels cheating in meaningless games is even worse than cheating in important games.  Like forms of theft in that sense that if someone is stealing food for survival that may be at least understandable but stealing just for the sake of stealing is an affront to all people of the community. So cheating in 'meaningless' games is a really horrible breach because the games ethics are not designed to be situational, nor individually defined and circumscribed.

Further rationalization of it or trying to minimize its impact on the people that feel betrayed and are hurt by it is skirting the issue. Using anecdotal reasoning is not going to bridge the gap of understanding here.


And the notion that ego involved and that is why people are opposed to being cheated is is silly and a red herring here.

lets pretend someone feels this way about stealing money:  that it was ok in their mind and that other people are taking money too seriously.  And it must be because of their ego that they are upset at having money stolen.  Then it would be all too obvious just how untenable this supercilious position really is.  

Well George, I think it's very possible that your opponent was looking things up in a book (or database); as I've mentioned I think this happens fairly often online and there's just not much you can do about it, just like everyone uses engines to blunder check in correspondence.

On the other hand, I often used to listen to music while I played, watch funny Youtube videos in the background, etc.  It's possible your opponent knew all that theory and was just distracted.  As I said, I never took online blitz chess seriously and so didn't really care if I lost on time while watching a Youtube video.  I really just used blitz to unwind after work and get a little opening practice.  That's about all it's good for.  You seem very worked up and paranoid about the possibility that your opponents might be cheating.  If I were you, I'd just accept that many of them are and then stop caring.  You'll be much happier. 

And stop taking online blitz so seriously!

I know I started this mess but I will add this.  I played a Gruenfeld as Black against someone rated 500 points higher than me last week on ICC.  He automatically played the Exchange variation, but then took 25 seconds to play 7. Bc4 -- enough time to load it up in chessbase, and a move you should either play automatically, or not (because you play Nf3 and Rb1).  After my out-of-style 10...Qc7 he takes a minute to find the book response 11. Rc1 -- also perhaps enough time to familiarize himself with a bit of the tree depending on how things progress.  And then after my 11...Rd8 he rattles off three book moves in a row with no thought leading him into a position that is 70+% for White.

Earlier today I showed the game to my coach, an IM, and without any prompting on my part, *he* commented on the possibility that my opponent was using a book or database.

ErictheRed wrote on 05/02/12 at 15:10:05:



No worries!   

I do not think any less of you and in fact respect very much your candor about the subject.

hmm...

Ratings are a tool. Do you use them to blow up your ego? Then cheating is an offense against you. Do you use them as a feedback? Then some cheaters are no problem. Your rating level will be 'normal' again some games later.

I don't spend my time hunting cheaters. They aren't worthy. 

The same rules of the game and ethics apply online or otb as far as I am concerned.  The medium makes no matter as the game is the same.

I don't follow your argument at all that the internet makes it less egregious an act.

At the same time I admit that the actual damage done is not so great either, perhaps.   

But I choose to see it as a principled thing, part of what constitutes integrity in people and it (online cheating at chess and/or the spectre of it) creates a very hostile air in an environment that is supposed to be civil and in which people have made pledges (by accepting the terms of service at a site like ICC) that they would not do such things.