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ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Daring Defences to 1. d4 › Dutch › Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.?

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Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? (Read 7827 times)

chk God Member Offline a pawn is a pawn Posts: 1063 Location: Athens Joined: 10/26/06 Gender:	Re: Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? Reply #6 - 05/04/12 at 08:15:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	@TalJechin: I understand your point. I am just in experimenting mode. Let's say my proper repertoire is moving towards the Dutch (anti- lines, the Stonewall, the Leningrad and maybe the Classical as well). But in the meantime I also wanted to experiment with different move orders to see White's reactions. But, yes maybe you are right, c4 should be welcomed in principle! @TN: Should look at that. Actually I like vs. the English a setup with ...g6/d6/f5/e5 (in no particular move order), so both the Modern and the Philidor look interesting options to me.

	"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? Reply #5 - 05/03/12 at 08:37:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	It's possible to reach the Dutch Leningrad via. the move order 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nf3 f5, to avoid not only the majority of Anti-Dutch lines but also the b3/Bb2 (without c4 in some cases) setup that Avrukh recommended. Avrukh covers this move order as well though.

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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? Reply #4 - 05/03/12 at 08:34:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 05/02/12 at 23:56:26: TalJechin wrote on 05/02/12 at 21:34:48: As for alternative routes to the Leningrad, there may be some theoretical snags with most of those, e.g. either a quick h2-h4-h5 or Nc3, without c4, aiming for e2-e4. 1...d6; 2...f5; and 3...Nf6; avoids these snags, while 4...g6; still is the Leningrad. Black has to play the Pirc/Robatsch, Czech or Philidor though. I was thinking about something like: 1.d4 d6 2.g3 f5 3.Bg2 Nf6 4.Nc3 and you basically have a choice of losing a tempo with d6-d5 or allowing e2-e4. Not that it's the end of the world for black though... Quote: or be allowed to enter a non-c4 Leningrad Hmm, I don't understand why you would want that. White's c4-pawn (and it's inability to support d4) is basically the reason for black's counterplay in the Leningrad.


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chk God Member Offline a pawn is a pawn Posts: 1063 Location: Athens Joined: 10/26/06 Gender:	Re: Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? Reply #3 - 05/03/12 at 08:03:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	Interesting - thank you. I understand from what you are saying that the real merit has to do solely with avoiding certain anti-Dutch lines. I am a bit dissapointed as I was trying to reach specifically setups with Nc3 before c4.. Incidentaly, I was thinking about the X-mas variation which looked like a nice universal system, but was reluctant to use it as I feel uneasy with hybrid Dutch setups which include the fianchetto (e.g. I find the Leningrad Stonewall too rigid). Anyway, will investigate further the Modern or Philidor option - there may be something there. I mean a possibility for one to reach certain desirable lines of the Modern (or Philidor) or be allowed to enter a non-c4 Leningrad (w/o the option for an early e4 by White). I think it may be also a nice approach vs. the English. Thanks again

	"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? Reply #2 - 05/02/12 at 23:56:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	TalJechin wrote on 05/02/12 at 21:34:48: As for alternative routes to the Leningrad, there may be some theoretical snags with most of those, e.g. either a quick h2-h4-h5 or Nc3, without c4, aiming for e2-e4. 1...d6; 2...f5; and 3...Nf6; avoids these snags, while 4...g6; still is the Leningrad. Black has to play the Pirc/Robatsch, Czech or Philidor though.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? Reply #1 - 05/02/12 at 21:34:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Iirc, a French IM named Anic or similar has been using 1...c6 and 2...f5 lots of times - personally I'm sceptical though. As for alternative routes to the Leningrad, there may be some theoretical snags with most of those, e.g. either a quick h2-h4-h5 or Nc3, without c4, aiming for e2-e4. Maybe the Modern could be used if White refuses to play e4, or perhaps the Benonigrad 1.d4 c5 2.d5 f5 provided again that White allows it. The X-mas variation via 1...e6 may be the safest way to reach a kind of Leningrad via a non 1...f5 move order.


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chk God Member Offline a pawn is a pawn Posts: 1063 Location: Athens Joined: 10/26/06 Gender:	Reaching Dutch Leningrad or Classical by transp.? 05/02/12 at 15:18:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hi fellow chessfriends! I am currently playing the Dutch Stonewall via the QGD move order. It is not perfect, but a good practical approach. Though the reason I started to play with this move order was to avoid the various anti-Dutch lines, I came to realise that it is often a clever way to confuse your opponent into an inferior setup vs. the Stonewall. I was wondering whether anyone of you has tried sth similar with the Leningrad Dutch, e.g. via the Pirc (1. d4 g6 or 2. d4 d6). I mostly have experience with the system suggested by Kindermann (ML with ...Qe8 & ...a5), but wouldn't mind trying the Nc6 or c6-Leningrad. For instance, I play the Caro-Kann, so maybe 1. d4 c6 could be interesting? I am equally interested with the Classical Dutch (though the obvious choice there is the French - 1.d4 e6, which unfortunately am not planning to add to my repertoire - the slot was taken by the Caro-Kann! ).

	"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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