Poll
Poll closed Question: Who will win the Euro 2012?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Poland    
  0 (0.0%)
Russia    
  0 (0.0%)
Czech Rep.    
  0 (0.0%)
Netherlands    
  3 (8.6%)
Portugal    
  1 (2.9%)
Germany    
  11 (31.4%)
Spain    
  6 (17.1%)
Italy    
  3 (8.6%)
France    
  2 (5.7%)
England    
  2 (5.7%)
Sweden    
  1 (2.9%)
Ukraine    
  0 (0.0%)
Greece    
  1 (2.9%)
Either Croatia or Ireland    
  4 (11.4%)
Denmark    
  1 (2.9%)




Total votes: 35
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 06/16/12 at 13:38:19 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Euro 2012 - The Poll (Read 83098 times)
Willempie
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #195 - 07/02/12 at 07:57:55
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Lou_Cyber wrote on 07/02/12 at 07:20:14:

Video proof is still useful for things the referee cannot see. Apart from goalline questions it should be used for carding players when they commited serious fouls which could not be seen by the referee in the game (e.g. the Zinedine-foul from WM-final 2006).

It is completely silly to block it since any viewer can see the error within seconds. That means the spectators also can with their smartphones.
Quote:

Regarding the All-Euro-Euro, I donīt like it. The gathering of the teams and the fans in one country creates the spirit of a tourney. Additional it gives a boost to the host country, setting up stadiums and improving infrastructure. You wouldnīt get this if every country has only 1 or 2 games. Sounds like a good idea to me only as an "Emergency plan", if you see that a Euro cannot take place as planned.

It is just a money scam. This way they can get money from more countries (via sponsoring) from the same event. But it is a completely stupid idea indeed, not to mention that the sponsors of the CL and the clubs will feel sold out...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Lou_Cyber
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #194 - 07/02/12 at 07:20:14
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So Spain it is, congratulations to the team and to the 6 winners of this poll.

Spain won in a brilliant way, they were the much better team and scored two brilliant goals. Only pity that the match was effectively decided after 60 minutes when Italy lost Motta, wile trailing 0-2.

Regarding goal-line technology according to my newspaper UEFA is still preferring the additional goal referees. I donīt know why, because to me it simply seems to be a waste of valuable human resources for a less reliable answer.

It is a very rare exeption that itīs doubtful wether the ball has passed the goalline or not. In the Euro we had ONE case in 34 games - which might still be above average. This means, it comes down to one second of decisive action against a whole tournament of useless stand-by. Which might explain why the referee got it wrong in the game. It is very hard to keep your senses sharp, when nothing happens most of the time.

Imo this argument rules out the only "Where will it stop-?" question of UEFA. I donīt mind that regular decisions are still decided by human means, especially offside calls, even if they are proved wrong.

Video proof is still useful for things the referee cannot see. Apart from goalline questions it should be used for carding players when they commited serious fouls which could not be seen by the referee in the game (e.g. the Zinedine-foul from WM-final 2006).

Regarding the All-Euro-Euro, I donīt like it. The gathering of the teams and the fans in one country creates the spirit of a tourney. Additional it gives a boost to the host country, setting up stadiums and improving infrastructure. You wouldnīt get this if every country has only 1 or 2 games. Sounds like a good idea to me only as an "Emergency plan", if you see that a Euro cannot take place as planned.

  

If you try, you may lose. If you donīt try, you have lost.
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Mortal Games
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #193 - 07/01/12 at 11:56:31
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I saw those tv manipulations too and its stupid. 
Platini talked about the chip on the ball for the goal line and it seems he agrees. The big news is the idea of a euro championship in all countries at the same time!  Roll Eyes
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Mortal Games
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #192 - 07/01/12 at 11:52:40
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Willempie - Spain certainly doesnt have the most shots on target. That is the weird way in which the stats are built up (apparently Van Persie's has 7 attempts on target ).
I heard that Spain and Italy have the best statistics. I do not know how stats are made but taking on account the sufocation that Spain did to Ireland, maybe that game only tip the stats in their favor. On the other hand, Spain is the team with only one goal suffered in the entire tournament. Penalties do not count.
If you take eg the semi final against Portugal, it went like this: Spain keeps the ball between penalty box and middle line waiting for a moment that they can play a pass behind the defense. That moment never happens and at some point they lose the ball, then within 5 passes the ball is in the Spanish penalty box, sometimes even dangerous. I believe the Portuguese goalie had to act in the 70th minute for the first time. The difference between Barcelona or Madrid is that they lack a proper center forward as a target man or a midfielder that can decide stuff on his own. The times they played with a striker this tournament, they were far more dangerous.
That being said, they have a very good team and if they are able to find holes in the final they could win easily.
Yes, I agree and I had the impression that other teams were afraid. I was not convinced by the first game with Germany because in the first game teams are afraid to loose and do not take risks and that was a mistake. I would like to face Germany in the second part of the tournament.
On the other hand I think the Italian defense is the best in the tournament and they do have 2 guys that can decide games on their own.
Again I think it is Spain but not important. I guess against Spain the story will be diferent. The big advantage that Spain have is Xavi and Iniesta and the rest from Barcelona like Navas and Fabregas that have much more routine because they play together all the time. If Spain put all those at the same time and not that guy Negredo like they did against Portugal, it will be very dificult for Italy. I guess Balotelli will not do the same things today because Spain do not play on risks and wait for one mistake.

PS it is a bit weird that Balotelli isnt ranked as no1 topscorer, since he also scored in the penalties against England.

PPS any opinions about the tv manipulations? Eg the crying German lady when Italy scored, which apparently was during the anthems.

PPPS and UEFA just mentioned that they are so happy with the extra linesmen that the goal line technology isnt necessary. Makes me wonder in combination with the tv manipulations. In any case it makes it quite clear that Fair Play is what others must do,,,
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #191 - 07/01/12 at 05:55:31
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Willempie wrote on 06/30/12 at 21:55:14:
PS it is a bit weird that Balotelli isnt ranked as no1 topscorer, since he also scored in the penalties against England.


I think it is common not to count the extra penalties as goals in the statistics. I suppose the main point is that a team that always reach the penalties could look like a very aggressive team in the statistics, while in reality, they never score a goal until the penalties. In the most extreme case, you could have a team that plays 0-0 in the quarter-final, the semi-final and the final, while there is, theoretically, no limit to how many goals they could score in the penalties.

On a similar note, I remember the media writing that Switzerland in the WC 2006 did not concede a single goal in the whole tournament (they lost the penalties in the round of 16, but apparently that did not count).
  
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #190 - 06/30/12 at 21:55:14
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Spain certainly doesnt have the most shots on target. That is the weird way in which the stats are built up (apparently Van Persie's has 7 attempts on target Roll Eyes).
If you take eg the semi final against Portugal, it went like this: Spain keeps the ball between penalty box and middle line waiting for a moment that they can play a pass behind the defense. That moment never happens and at some point they lose the ball, then within 5 passes the ball is in the Spanish penalty box, sometimes even dangerous. I believe the Portuguese goalie had to act in the 70th minute for the first time. The difference between Barcelona or Madrid is that they lack a proper center forward as a target man or a midfielder that can decide stuff on his own. The times they played with a striker this tournament, they were far more dangerous.
That being said, they have a very good team and if they are able to find holes in the final they could win easily. On the other hand I think the Italian defense is the best in the tournament and they do have 2 guys that can decide games on their own.

PS it is a bit weird that Balotelli isnt ranked as no1 topscorer, since he also scored in the penalties against England.

PPS any opinions about the tv manipulations? Eg the crying German lady when Italy scored, which apparently was during the anthems.

PPPS and UEFA just mentioned that they are so happy with the extra linesmen that the goal line technology isnt necessary. Makes me wonder in combination with the tv manipulations. In any case it makes it quite clear that Fair Play is what others must do,,,
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #189 - 06/30/12 at 21:22:19
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One thing is clear, Spain and Italy are the teams with the most shots on target and this is the reason they are in the final. I understand your point of view because people like emotions and there are ones who like lots of attempts and mistakes (like in chess) and the ones who like to see great defence and a near perfect played game. In the eighties there was a player in Brasil called Toninho Cerezo that kick the ball in whathever opportunity he had and always near the target creating great emotions and that team did a great show in every game and was called one of the best teams ever but in the end they loose. After that Brasil learned the lesson and started to play diferently and more effective football with several world championship wins. It is not as near the same situation but I consider higher quality game Spain-Portugal then more opportunities but more mistakes too. Philip Lahm for example is a very good player but it is the second time that he made a mistake (the other was in the last competition against Spain). 
About Anand-Gelfand what I remember is that Gelfand had fighting spirit in the openings he choose, and several slow games were interesting but the match was too short and I hate blitz decisions for classical chess. That tactical blunder is remembered for some time because it is not expected at that level and creates sensation (emotions) and it is always easy to see tactical shots with plenty of time on the clock, but to see deep positional moves is another story. Almost at the same time, I liked very much some games (Four Knights) in the Kramnik-Aronian match, but maybe these are quick forgotten.
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Lou_Cyber
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #188 - 06/30/12 at 17:04:26
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Mortal Games wrote on 06/29/12 at 16:45:35:

Much more "entertaining" because germans were weak and went down for the second time against Italy.    


No.Entertaining, because we saw two attacking teams. Germanys setup may not have been the best, I agree. But it was still close as numbers prove:

Germany vs. Italy
Goals: 1-2
Attempts: 20-11

So Germany tried hard (we could have tried harder with some changes in the line-up), but Italy surely had the much better chances and was able to convert with Balotelli.

Portugal vs. Spain
Goals: 0-0
Attempts: 11-14

At least twice as much attempts in the game Germany-Italy, if you consider that Portugal and Spain had 120 minutes to play.

Willempies "I only woke up for the penalties" sum the latter game up well. You may argue that this game was of higher quality, but Iīd rather watch the lower quality games.

Similar to Anand vs. Gelfand ... some of the less trying slaw matches are already forgotten but for some theoreticans, but we will remember the 8th game for some time - which was just a tactical blunder, if you sum it up.
  

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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #187 - 06/29/12 at 16:45:35
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Vass - I always hated "tiki-taka" football..   
And I believe it's not soccer at all..

Then we have a diferent understanding of what real football is. Maybe Barcelona do not play any soccer at all... Smiley

Quote:
Lou_Cyber - As a small remedy the game was much more entertaining than Spain vs. Portugal, especially because the Italians donīt  play tiki-taka.

Much more "entertaining" because germans were weak and went down for the second time against Italy.  Letīs see who will win in the end... 






  

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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #186 - 06/29/12 at 15:25:39
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Kubas 1-1 in POL vs. RUS  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw1e2SYbhvE
  

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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #185 - 06/29/12 at 12:47:05
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After Sunday's final, we should perhaps have a vote on the juiciest goal in the tm? Smiley

some obvious nominees imo:
Ballotelli's 2-0 vs GER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH8BJkCEuKU)
Zlatan's 1-0 vs FRA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkOoWf2iyck)
Welbeck's 3-2 vs SWE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAVusNfEBbY)
Gomez's 1-0 vs POR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CwwPb8oU8o)
  
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #184 - 06/29/12 at 09:42:53
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The first minutes of the game were very important for the outcome. The Italians appeared physically & mendally tired and made a couple of blunders that fortunately for them didn't cost. After this opening phase, they were the much better team and managed to pull tons of energy (which was amazing to me considering they only had 3,5 rest days).

..and the 2nd goal was one of the best in the tournament - simply perfect!  Shocked
  

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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #183 - 06/29/12 at 09:08:35
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TalJechin wrote on 06/29/12 at 08:25:10:
Tiki-taka??

The German Angstgegner, Italy, was simply the much better team, 3-0 wouldn't have been unfair at all. 

I was very surprised when Löw substituted Gomez for Klose, if 0-2 vs Italy doesn't justify using two attackers then what will? And if a Gomez in shape couldn't dent the Italian defence, why should a Klose out of form have a better chance to do it alone...?!


No doubt about Italys deserved win. The first half was (perhaps seen with german eyes) until the first goal even. By taking in Kroos Germany disturbed Italys build up, but on the other hand lost a lot of offensive power. Also due to the fact that Podolski had a very bad day. After the two goals we were a bit shell-shocked.

German play improved at the begin of the 2nd half by taking in Reus instead of Podolski. They put a lot of pressure on the very good italian defence, and if theyīd scored the game could have taken a different turn.

After ca. 70 minutes it was more or less game over for us. We had to give up defence and were lucky not to get the 3-0.

As a small remedy the game was much more entertaining than Spain vs. Portugal, especially because the Italians donīt  play tiki-taka. They crushed us with long vertical passing and surprised with two strikers, especially with outstanding Balotelli. What a second goal ...
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #182 - 06/29/12 at 08:25:10
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Tiki-taka??

The German Angstgegner, Italy, was simply the much better team, 3-0 wouldn't have been unfair at all. 

I was very surprised when Löw substituted Gomez for Klose, if 0-2 vs Italy doesn't justify using two attackers then what will? And if a Gomez in shape couldn't dent the Italian defence, why should a Klose out of form have a better chance to do it alone...?!
  
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Re: Euro 2012 - The Poll
Reply #181 - 06/29/12 at 07:21:10
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I always hated "tiki-taka" football..  Angry
And I believe it's not soccer at all..
But if they meet each other...football almost always wins..  Cry
  
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