Poll
Poll closed Question: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand Title Match?
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Anand by 2 or more    
  36 (37.1%)
Gelfand by 2 or more    
  1 (1.0%)
Anand by 1    
  41 (42.3%)
Gelfand by 1    
  9 (9.3%)
Anand in a Tie-break    
  4 (4.1%)
Gelfand in a Tie-break    
  5 (5.2%)
The match will be cancelled.    
  1 (1.0%)




Total votes: 97
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 05/08/12 at 15:52:16 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship? (Read 165444 times)
battleangel
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #338 - 05/29/12 at 14:42:19
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The reason for the high price fund this year was partially due to the fact that the past world championships were exciting bethanks to players like Topalov, but also Anand Kramnik was very exciting ... 
but as already stated by Kasparov, the fact alone that not the 2 best players in the world are fighting for the world championship renders this match less valueable ...
there are many interesting football games going on in 2nd and 3rd leagues, but you don't care for them, you rather want to see a less interesting football game in the 1st league, because you want to see the best teams.
Anand and Gelfand are 2nd league compared to Carlsen, Aronian and Kramnik ... and I don't wanna watch 2nd league
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #337 - 05/29/12 at 14:05:39
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If all you want is a winner with exciting chess, then do away with classical time controls. 

Play all the games as rapids or even blitz games. 

By the way, why was there no world Blitz championship in the last year?  Was it due to sponsorship issues? Lips Sealed
  
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Antillian
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #336 - 05/29/12 at 13:38:31
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I agree  the issue is indeed the lack of fighting. It is not about the choice of openings. It not about swash buckling attacking chess or lack thereof. It is  prematurely draws when there was a fight that still could be waged. Consider the last game as the epitome of it all. 

And again, I don't blame Gelfand. I expect him to be defensive and cautious. Let's face it, for him, the fact that he did not get blown out and lasted the full 12 games is in victory of sorts for him. Anand refused to  fight and I lay the blame on him and he deserves to lose his title. He showed in this match that he does not deserve to carry the mantle of World Champion.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Dink Heckler
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #335 - 05/29/12 at 09:21:32
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I think there is an important distinction. The players do not have a duty to entertain; they are not performing seals. But they have a duty to fight, and the fighting creates the entertainment.

If you don't believe this, maybe it's because you're a Platonic idealist. Maybe you'd be happy if the players were locked in a room, and a puff of white smoke announces the winner after a month or so....'but, what about the games; let's see the games?' you may clamour, and a shuffling of feet, staring at shoes, awkward silence will ensue...but at least the great unbroken chain stretching from Steinitz through the pantheon etc will have been maintained.

Reality is, professional sport is the entertainment business. It can't thrive, can't pay its participants,  unless it entertains. The reality of this attenuated rubbish is that it impoverishes chess professionals.

We've just seen the worst WC match by a long chalk; these guys just took the money and ran, to the detriment of fans, sponsors, and their fellow professionals. Why shouldn't we heap scorn on the players?!
  

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akita
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #334 - 05/29/12 at 09:20:21
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Hi All

You are a sponser right!

7 out of 12 games in the match were drawn in fewer than 30 moves 5 fewer than 26 moves!

I think the audiences watching the games have been short changed as have the chess public at large and indeed the sponsers. Too much credit has been given to the players but as they say actions (see above) speak louder than words.

I say again if you have many more matches like this at Classical time controls I think sponsers will not be prepared to pay several million dollars to pay for it. In turn the sponsers will begin to look elsewhere and the drip down effect could in the long term sound the death knell of all but a few professional chess players. No top players must take there responsibilities seriously. If you have two top football teams who do nothing to win the game what do you think the reaction will be from everybody!

OK let's get positive. I am looking forward to the Rapid games. Maybe one of the players will take a risk? But GM Ian Rogers made a somewhat terse comment. Ater the 4 games of Rapid play are drawn we move onto the blitz! or something like that.   

Akita
  
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Willempie
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #333 - 05/29/12 at 08:51:54
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/29/12 at 07:28:40:
I never heard of players having to play aggressive openings or "entertaining chess" (One must define "entertaining" here eventually) to get sponsorship. I would think titled players play chess because they like to play chess and because they are good, not because they want a sponsorship. And what sponsorship, this is not like a football club, or is it new phenomenon in chess that I am missing where grandmasters can try to play "exciting" chess to "entertain" the audience so that they can have their own brand of trainers or have their name on a T-shirt, or their own brand name of car or have their face on a television advert? And as is said above, if they try to play against their style and trying to entertain the audience, they lose quickly then what happens? Or is this what certain spectators want and think, "This is good chess, the players played a Botvinnik Semi-Slav, where both players had no idea what they were doing, and the game ended in less than 20 moves since a player blundered, but at least it was not a draw and the game made no sense." ?

Remember that Spanish dude who ran Linares? He just stopped inviting players who he thought were not playing fighting chess. I would do the same if I were running a top tournament like Tata. Eg of this match I'd invite the winner and not the other. You dont need to play a sharp semislav, but playing a Bb5 sicilian and offering a draw before move 30 is not what I call fighting chess.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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chk
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #332 - 05/29/12 at 08:10:50
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There was a good quote, I think it either came out of Fischer or Kramnik (I would bet Kramnik), saying more or less that when a player becomes the world champ there is a tendency to change his style and become much more cautious (I suppose his openings change to predominantly fit into match play, he may be afraid to lose the title and other psychological factors, avoids to reveal his preparation in tournaments, getting tired by constantly battling at the highest level, etc.).

Food for thought..
  

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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #331 - 05/29/12 at 07:28:40
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I never heard of players having to play aggressive openings or "entertaining chess" (One must define "entertaining" here eventually) to get sponsorship. I would think titled players play chess because they like to play chess and because they are good, not because they want a sponsorship. And what sponsorship, this is not like a football club, or is it new phenomenon in chess that I am missing where grandmasters can try to play "exciting" chess to "entertain" the audience so that they can have their own brand of trainers or have their name on a T-shirt, or their own brand name of car or have their face on a television advert? And as is said above, if they try to play against their style and trying to entertain the audience, they lose quickly then what happens? Or is this what certain spectators want and think, "This is good chess, the players played a Botvinnik Semi-Slav, where both players had no idea what they were doing, and the game ended in less than 20 moves since a player blundered, but at least it was not a draw and the game made no sense." ?
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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akita
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #330 - 05/29/12 at 07:10:53
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Hi All

The bottom line has to be what the sponsers think. If you do not want large sums of money devoted to chess then play as many Anand-Gelfand matches as you like. I see it as a duty of the Chess professional to entertain otherwise there will be no money to pay for professional Chess! If they can't do that then they should at least show some fighting spirit. 

Akita
  
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gwnn
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #329 - 05/29/12 at 06:59:34
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I'm not an expert but I think the openings in this match were quite original (more original than anything in Kazan or the 2010 or 2008 matches). Also the middlegames and, er, I admit there haven't been so many endgames to talk about! I agree that it would have been a nice show to see them play out some of these supposed draws but they do not need to.
  
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Zwischenzugzwang
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #328 - 05/29/12 at 06:02:18
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In this match, the players were in a conflict of playing attractive chess (which I'm sure both players want to) and "rational" chess (playing for result). It was rational for both players to play the way they did: Anand hoping to be better in rapid / blitz / Armaggeddon games, Gelfand hoping for a lucky shot. (The same conflict arose in the candidate's matches last year for all of the players.) It's hard to blame a player to play what he might consider as rationally best.

The solution seems obvious to me: Take them out of this conflict! Having draw odds from the beginning - by a pre-match tiebreak, by draw odds for the defender, by tossing a coin or by investigating the shape and colour of a dead goat's intestines - would just rule it out.

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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #327 - 05/29/12 at 04:28:56
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I think Gelfand tried to play too aggressively in the game in which he played Benoni. I suppose the spectators were "entertained" after the first 15 moves or so, but when Gelfand lost in less than 20 moves, he was lost in a sharp position, for example.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #326 - 05/29/12 at 03:48:19
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Exactly, thinking about it perhaps it is a vindication of Gelfand's strategy and preparation that Anand hasn't felt confident enough to play attacking chess against him, he is aware of course that it could rebound and maybe this has made him over-cautious.
  
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #325 - 05/29/12 at 02:35:46
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To be honest, I think making a strong attempt to "entertain" the audience might actually lead to more losses to that player, especially a positional player (But in that case would not positional player spectators be entertained?). If they have to play unclear positions and lose all of their games, they have succeeded in entertaining their audience as well as losing the tournament.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Katalyst
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #324 - 05/29/12 at 01:59:15
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yes, please enough about it being the finalists' "duty" to provide interesting games - this is complete nonsense. 

If you find yourself in a World Championship, are you going to a) try to entertain the audience or b) do whatever it takes to try to win.  This is an obvious truth.

As Antillian pointed out very eloquently, Anand has failed to do either (and so has Gelfand as well to a certain extent), and with a match that is too short the games we have had are the natural result.
  
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