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Poll closed Question: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand Title Match?
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Anand by 2 or more    
  36 (37.1%)
Gelfand by 2 or more    
  1 (1.0%)
Anand by 1    
  41 (42.3%)
Gelfand by 1    
  9 (9.3%)
Anand in a Tie-break    
  4 (4.1%)
Gelfand in a Tie-break    
  5 (5.2%)
The match will be cancelled.    
  1 (1.0%)




Total votes: 97
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 05/08/12 at 15:52:16 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship? (Read 165450 times)
Antillian
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #353 - 05/30/12 at 10:07:25
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/30/12 at 01:14:13:
I think there was a thread with another similar topic about draw offers banned, but even if draw offers were not allowed so early, they would simply play on until move _ and agree a draw. The remaining moves will probably not be of much significance.


I don't agree. In a balanced position where more than one result is still possible, but a draw agreed early, playing on for another 15 or 20 moves might clarify the position. Even if it is clarified as a draw, so be it. That would still be a more acceptable outcome.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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ubiyca
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #352 - 05/30/12 at 04:49:19
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Katalyst wrote on 05/30/12 at 03:49:29:
The traditionalist in me somehow doesn't like the idea of applying Sofia rules etc. to Wch matches.

I suggest the following format:

Pre match tiebreak, best of 5 games rapid, cointoss decides Whites, 18 classical games thereafter (a happy medium between 24 and 12).  Or maybe 16 games if the players think 18 is too much.



The traditionalist favors a pre-match tiebreak of an odd number of rapid games? Hehe, color me confused.  Shocked

There are two things I don't like about the pre-match tiebreak - (1) it's quickplay for the slow-chess title; and (2) I think the players will essentially have to reveal their hand with openings before the main battle and that's what I want to see.
  

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JEH
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #351 - 05/30/12 at 04:32:53
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Chap with the chess pieces there, five rounds rapid.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Katalyst
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #350 - 05/30/12 at 03:49:29
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The traditionalist in me somehow doesn't like the idea of applying Sofia rules etc. to Wch matches.

I suggest the following format:

Pre match tiebreak, best of 5 games rapid, cointoss decides Whites, 18 classical games thereafter (a happy medium between 24 and 12).  Or maybe 16 games if the players think 18 is too much.

  
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Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #349 - 05/30/12 at 01:14:13
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I think there was a thread with another similar topic about draw offers banned, but even if draw offers were not allowed so early, they would simply play on until move _ and agree a draw. The remaining moves will probably not be of much significance.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Antillian
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #348 - 05/30/12 at 00:16:27
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In case anyone was wondering what the world's # 1 thought, he tweeted this about two hours ago:

@MagnusCarlsen
Seriously though, I don't blame the players for agreeing to all those early draws, it's just appaling that the rules allow them to
  

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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #347 - 05/29/12 at 22:58:27
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I don't actually mind the chess that's been played in the match - ok, only 6 games are so have been interesting for me from a chess content perspective (all have been interesting when considering things beyond just the actual moves), but I don't think there was really much left in any of the games agreed drawn and I don't disagree with those decisions. Still, I would rather not see the title determined in some quickplay tiebreaks. And that's even if they are played before the match, which I think introduces a lot of other issues. 

Some time back (when the Candidates Matches were going on), I suggested a system to try and avoid quickplay tiebreaks in a match system. Basically, based on the qualifying tournament performances, the higher seed gets draw odds in the match while the lower seed gets an extra white. 

I later ran some simulations to show that (under some simple assumptions and depending on the match length) the higher seed would be expected to win around 55-60% of the matches. 

I still like that framework, because it pushes quickplay as far away from determining the match winners as is reasonable I think. The same could be said about this match. Draw odds by itself is too big an advantage I think (and it's not exactly an unlikely occurrence, having already happened like 8 times in about 40 WCh matches). At the same time, given that most of the champions/challengers are pretty close in strength, you're not really likely to get any statistically significant result in a match of even 24 games, even if that seems like a long match. So we're not going for any exact result here, but in a 15-game match where Anand has 7 whites and 8 blacks, he's still expected to "win" the match 56% of the time. At the same time, the match is guaranteed to be over with classical time controls, and the introduction of some sort of match-imbalance with colors/draw odds increases the likelihood of more spectator-friendly play. 

In other words, I still like my idea.  Wink
  

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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #346 - 05/29/12 at 21:14:15
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/29/12 at 01:00:22:
Markovich wrote on 05/28/12 at 01:46:13:


...Who is to reign if a championship match ends in a draw, if not the present champion? Therefore unless we admit the possibility of a match that never ends, the present champion must enjoy draw odds. (Emphasis added ~SF)


Markovich, my comment was directed at this quote. 

The presence of an Armageddon game means that there is no need for the possibility of a match that never ends. The present champion and the challenger both have chances to reign, and therefore the champion does not enjoy draw odds.


Well, I was assuming a match where speed chess would not be used.  Yes, if you introduce speed chess, WITH as so-called armageddon game, you force a definite result.

But the armageddon game is essentially a coin toss, so it make a travesty of the W.C..  

Why does a challenger not have to demonstrate that he is better, not just luckier, that the reigning champion?

I would rather see serious chess played, and it you end in a draw, try to become the challenger next cycle, you know?
  

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Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #345 - 05/29/12 at 20:29:19
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I have heard various times that the 24-game series is implausible, but to prevent opening preparation from ending in draws and having drawn games for a short series, this seems to be the only plausible option, otherwise shorter time controls seem to be a possible solution. Even if the problem is considered as no decisive chess, time control I would think would have a relevance. Perhaps 12-game series of long games, followed by a 12-game series of rapid games, just a suggestion I had contemplated.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #344 - 05/29/12 at 19:00:43
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Sofia rules should be in play especially last game where there was much to do.

Anand is definitely the better blitz player and I wouldn't blame him if he chose to win the match in a 5 minute game
  
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #343 - 05/29/12 at 17:22:40
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/29/12 at 14:05:39:
If all you want is a winner with exciting chess, then do away with classical time controls. 

Play all the games as rapids or even blitz games. 

By the way, why was there no world Blitz championship in the last year?  Was it due to sponsorship issues? Lips Sealed

It is not the time controls, it is the lack of pushing. So far the only thing Anand has shown is that he can win when his opponent blunders a queen for the rest he has failed to put any pressure on Gelfand. 
Personally I hope that Gelfand will now cream Anand in the rapids, so that he can feel very sorry for this match strategy.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #342 - 05/29/12 at 17:06:38
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Hi All

All we want to see is fighting Chess is that not so?

Ask Carlsen/Aronian/Kramnik if theye would have offered Gelfand a draw in the final position of the final game.

Right time to roll up their sleeves and get stuck into the Rapid play games. 

Anand must play without fear. If he loses he loses but people will respect him if he goes for it.

For Gelfand he should just continue playing as he has been. I don't think he has much more to give in terms of Chess. I think Anand does and so I go with Anand to win in the Rapid's.

Akita
  
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #341 - 05/29/12 at 16:15:38
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Well to play good chess I would have thought. Most of the games in this match have been played out to positions where both players accepted it was drawn so we can't really have any complaints, especially with the final game which was a great effort in terms of preparation by Anand and resourcefulness by Gelfand. One of the best games of the match really. If people really wanted these drawn positions played out for the benefit of the spectators the solution is simple - Sofia rules.
  
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #340 - 05/29/12 at 14:48:09
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If entertainment meant only decisive games, then indeed as Smyslov_Fan says we should have only rapid/blitz games.
However I do not have an issue with the draws but the way quite a few of the draws were made.
A majority of the games have been short draws, in positions where play might have been continued. For instance the final game. 
What is the point of a match in classical format if most games are drawn shortly after the opening-preparation phase is over.
  
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Re: Who will win the Anand-Gelfand World Championship?
Reply #339 - 05/29/12 at 14:48:08
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The last game was a great game I thought. Are people complaining about that one as well?
  
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