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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) I need a little help from my friends (Read 8622 times)
Willempie
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #18 - 05/13/12 at 09:22:56
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If the open sicilian scares you or you have lousy results, it may pay off to in stead of studying opening lines to play through some annotated games by the following players:
-Keres. No one has equalled his score as white against it and he was a real pioneer in certain lines.
-Geller and Karpov for lines with Be2
-Some other players that play very interesting as white: Ljubojevic, Velimirovic, Shirov, Short and Anand.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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TN
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #17 - 05/13/12 at 08:14:31
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/13/12 at 08:03:21:
wolfsblut wrote on 05/13/12 at 07:44:06:
Dear Pingudon and all,

I really have the same problem: 1.e4 or 1.d4??????
I`am still undicided, but I think that losing quicker with 1.e4 after an error (This is also the opinion of Kaufman in his new book and the reason why he switched to 1.d4) is overrated: If you play razorsharp things like 6.Bg5 against the Najdorf it may become true but if you play the positional 6.Be2 surely not! If you play the Anti-Moscow-Gambit against the Semi-Slav it become maybe true, but if you play some quiet stuff.....
In my opinion things like the following are important:
1.How do you like the postions after the first moves in the most usual openings?
2.Is there a chessplayer which chess you like very much?
3.How much time you will investigate?
greetings
wolfsblut


Even against other Sicilians than the Najdorf, for some reason I still lost quite quickly compared to 1. d4. I lost many against Kan, Taimanov, Scheveningen, and Sveshnikov, etc. I think the reason of the Open Sicilian for most of the main lines is to attack, but for some reason I usually ended up losing to the attack. Maybe because in the Sicilian there are a lot of kingside attacks for both sides, where both sides must value every move as a possible resource to support the attack. The only main variations in 1. d4 where I remember this happens with frequency that I can think of are the Mar Del Plata King's Indian and Botvinnik Semi-Slav.


When I first studied and played the Open Sicilian as White, as a much lower-rated player, I found I was often outplayed in the early middlegame, or would miss a typical tactic. This was no longer the case when I spent a few months working on the different variations; the Open Sicilian went from being my biggest weakness to my greatest strength opening-wise, at least for some months. 

But if you're one of those players who just wants to reach a playable position out of the opening, then 1.d4 might be a more practical way of doing that than 1.e4. But there's always the Alapin Sicilian if the Open doesn't work for you.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #16 - 05/13/12 at 08:03:21
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wolfsblut wrote on 05/13/12 at 07:44:06:
Dear Pingudon and all,

I really have the same problem: 1.e4 or 1.d4??????
I`am still undicided, but I think that losing quicker with 1.e4 after an error (This is also the opinion of Kaufman in his new book and the reason why he switched to 1.d4) is overrated: If you play razorsharp things like 6.Bg5 against the Najdorf it may become true but if you play the positional 6.Be2 surely not! If you play the Anti-Moscow-Gambit against the Semi-Slav it become maybe true, but if you play some quiet stuff.....
In my opinion things like the following are important:
1.How do you like the postions after the first moves in the most usual openings?
2.Is there a chessplayer which chess you like very much?
3.How much time you will investigate?
greetings
wolfsblut


Even against other Sicilians than the Najdorf, for some reason I still lost quite quickly compared to 1. d4. I lost many against Kan, Taimanov, Scheveningen, and Sveshnikov, etc. I think the reason of the Open Sicilian for most of the main lines is to attack, but for some reason I usually ended up losing to the attack. Maybe because in the Sicilian there are a lot of kingside attacks for both sides, where both sides must value every move as a possible resource to support the attack. The only main variations in 1. d4 where I remember this happens with frequency that I can think of are the Mar Del Plata King's Indian and Botvinnik Semi-Slav.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Matemax
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #15 - 05/13/12 at 07:54:03
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It doesn't make a difference if you lose quicker - lost is lost. What are you all afraid of? If you lose a chess game you just start a new one. Life doesn't depend on chess (at least not for forum members here!).

Therefore:
Enjoy chess - study openings, replay games, sharpen your skills and then just practise and PLAY. Seems some of you forgot that it is a GAME and not an EXAMINE. Where is the fun?

"The purpose of chess should not be to fill a bucket, but to light a fire."
Aristoteles (modified by me Wink)



  
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wolfsblut
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #14 - 05/13/12 at 07:44:06
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Dear Pingudon and all,

I really have the same problem: 1.e4 or 1.d4??????
I`am still undicided, but I think that losing quicker with 1.e4 after an error (This is also the opinion of Kaufman in his new book and the reason why he switched to 1.d4) is overrated: If you play razorsharp things like 6.Bg5 against the Najdorf it may become true but if you play the positional 6.Be2 surely not! If you play the Anti-Moscow-Gambit against the Semi-Slav it become maybe true, but if you play some quiet stuff.....
In my opinion things like the following are important:
1.How do you like the postions after the first moves in the most usual openings?
2.Is there a chessplayer which chess you like very much?
3.How much time you will investigate?
greetings
wolfsblut
  
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TN
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #13 - 05/13/12 at 06:42:50
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You will lose any position by move 25 if you don't understand it. But it seems you have put work into understanding your 1.d4 openings, which by your account seems to have paid off. But I wouldn't reject the possibility of returning to 1.e4 later.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #12 - 05/13/12 at 02:39:12
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Well, I played the 1-minute game two nights ago at 03.00. But the 1. e4 problems I was referring to was a few years in my tournament career, for much the entire time that I played 1. e4. I was trying to say that if one will make errors in the opening, my advice according to my experience was that, if I made opening mistakes in 1. d4 I could try to rectify my position and try to win in the middlegame/endgame, but if I made opening mistakes in 1. e4, mostly when playing the Open Sicilian, I usually got mated around move 25 or lost massive amounts of material. Smiley

My most embarassing games are when I have played the Open Sicilian and Main Line Spanish. My last game with 1. e4 was against Karavade, when I had a lost position around move 22 playing against the Sicilian Scheveningen. In addition to getting lost positions around move 25 against the Sicilian, I had a lost position against the Chigorin Spanish when playing against a GM a few years ago. I already messed up on move 15 to get a =/+ position, then a completely lost position on move 20  Undecided
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #11 - 05/13/12 at 02:23:32
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/13/12 at 00:15:52:
fling wrote on 05/12/12 at 08:17:19:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/12/12 at 06:42:12:


I can't remember where I saw this commented on, but in essence, the point was that even if you haven't resigned at move 15, you may still be as good as dead lost in a closed opening at this point. It will just take longer time to lose, and you will mistakenly think you played better than you did in your open games.


I meant if one makes an inaccuracy in the opening playing 1. d4 and does not have a positionally lost position around move 15, but rather an equal position or in the worst scenario, a slightly worse position, at least one can play chess and try to win the game. In my experiences if I make small (not major) mistakes in the opening with 1. d4, where the position is definitely not positionally lost but equal, I can at least still play the game. With 1. e4, if I make a small mistake in the opening, I get mated before move 25, so that was the difference to which I was referring: small inaccuracy with 1. d4 meaning losing the +/=, whilst small inaccuracy with 1. e4 meaning I lose within one hour of the game starting, and I go to the restaurant to have an early dinner Smiley 

Off-topic: 
Sorry Gilchrist, but you seem to go crazy right now. You start posting 1 mins bullet games, you talk about getting mated within 25 moves only doing minor mistakes after 1.e4 Grin. You should take a break and calm down a bit Wink.

@TO:
Simply play what you like most; there are variations in each variation you will hate. So don't hope to escape all variations by choosing another first move. Wink
  
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #10 - 05/13/12 at 00:15:52
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fling wrote on 05/12/12 at 08:17:19:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/12/12 at 06:42:12:
I feel like with 1. d4, I do not have to spend as much time trying to survive the opening as I do with 1. e4, since somehow 1. e4 seems to provide sharper positions than 1. d4, especially Open Sicilian.


I can't remember where I saw this commented on, but in essence, the point was that even if you haven't resigned at move 15, you may still be as good as dead lost in a closed opening at this point. It will just take longer time to lose, and you will mistakenly think you played better than you did in your open games.


I meant if one makes an inaccuracy in the opening playing 1. d4 and does not have a positionally lost position around move 15, but rather an equal position or in the worst scenario, a slightly worse position, at least one can play chess and try to win the game. In my experiences if I make small (not major) mistakes in the opening with 1. d4, where the position is definitely not positionally lost but equal, I can at least still play the game. With 1. e4, if I make a small mistake in the opening, I get mated before move 25, so that was the difference to which I was referring: small inaccuracy with 1. d4 meaning losing the +/=, whilst small inaccuracy with 1. e4 meaning I lose within one hour of the game starting, and I go to the restaurant to have an early dinner Smiley 
  

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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #9 - 05/12/12 at 23:28:09
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Good point fling. Short ago I played against a very strong player and I played 1.d4 he answer with an Slav.  The game lasted about 30 moves but afterwards he explained to me that I was lost about move 14. So it did not do much of a difference
  
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #8 - 05/12/12 at 10:40:13
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Pingudon wrote on 05/11/12 at 22:23:38:
Hi friends. I know is a silly question. But when you answer in some way you help me to understand and decide. I am  a 1800 player over the board. I love to play main lines. I am having a hard time to decide what to study. 1.d4 or 1.e5. Some people think that with 1.d4 you can play and squeeze little by little and the you win or draw without taking to much risk. Then some of my friends say that when you play 1.e4 you have to study much more, is very risky and you can win but you also can easily lose against a double edge sicilian.    Do you really think that the effort to play main lines with 1.e4 is more difficult than when you play 1.d4??


If you aren't sure, play both.  Wink
  

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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #7 - 05/12/12 at 08:17:19
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/12/12 at 06:42:12:
I feel like with 1. d4, I do not have to spend as much time trying to survive the opening as I do with 1. e4, since somehow 1. e4 seems to provide sharper positions than 1. d4, especially Open Sicilian.


I can't remember where I saw this commented on, but in essence, the point was that even if you haven't resigned at move 15, you may still be as good as dead lost in a closed opening at this point. It will just take longer time to lose, and you will mistakenly think you played better than you did in your open games.
  
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #6 - 05/12/12 at 06:42:12
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I feel like with 1. d4, I do not have to spend as much time trying to survive the opening as I do with 1. e4, since somehow 1. e4 seems to provide sharper positions than 1. d4, especially Open Sicilian. When I play the Open Sicilian, which was quite frequent as a 1. e4 player, I was in many positions where every move was very tense and I felt as if I could lose at any moment if I made one inaccurate move in the opening and middlegame. Apart from a few openings against 1. d4, such as the Botvinnik Semi-Slav, I find that usually the positions are not as sharp as those from 1. e4. So to me at least, whilst both 1. d4 and 1. e4 require much work to learn the main lines, with 1. d4 generally there seem to be less sharp positions than those from 1. e4.
  

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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #5 - 05/12/12 at 06:03:35
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It also depends on what your long-term goals are.

If your long-term goal is to become a GM, you should probably learn 1.e4 now, if not two years ago!

Regarding how much memory or energy it takes to learn one or the other, it really depends on how you approach chess. 

I've played 1.d4 as my main opening most of my life. I picked it up because I saw it as a sort of left-handed serve (to paraphrase Petrosian). It has a different spin than most people expect. If you learn the openings well, you will have an advantage. But that's true of either 1.e4 or 1.d4. They BOTH require tons of hard work to be successful against motivated opponents.
  
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Re: I need a little help from my friends
Reply #4 - 05/12/12 at 04:27:43
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Depends on whether you prefer to face the Grunfeld and Slav or the Berlin and Najdorf.

Eventually though you'll have to play (or study at least) both 1.e4 and 1.d4 if you really want to improve. You'd be missing out if you never played the Queen's Gambit, Indian defences, Ruy Lopez and Open Sicilian.
  
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