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C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense (Read 21210 times)

sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #169 - 11/24/12 at 02:01:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	A high-level test of 8…Nd5 occurred in Short-Kasparov, Leuven, 2011, 8.Bd3 Nd5 9.Nf3 (I like Ne4 better. In the “internal harmony” of chess, Ne4 gains time; Nf3 loses time. Unless there is a tactical refutation of 9.Ne4, it is to be preferred. Now Short allows his pawn structure to be compromised. 9…Bd6 10.O-O Nf4 11.Re1?! (I think that 11.Nc3 is more accurate to threaten Be2 if Black fails to capture on d3. Now 11...Nxd3 12.dxc3 O-O 13.Ne4 Ba6 14.Re1 Bxd3 15.Nxd6 Qxd6 16.Nxe5 +/=) 11…Nxd3 12.cxd3 (Now Black can defend e5) 12…O-O 13.Nc3 Re8 14.h3?! (This appears to be the critical mistake. With 14.Ne4 White develops with tempo. How does Black equalize? 14…Bg4 15.h3 Bh5 16.Ng3 & White stands better than in the game) …c5! 15.b3 (Ne4) 15…Ba6 16.Ba3 Bxd3 =/+ (Black has regained the pawn, is up the minor exchange and has the initiative; this is one of those occasions where inexact play is punished) 17.Ne4 (Now this is too late) 17…Bxe4! (A world class move. Garry reckons that his attacking prospects improve by getting rid of a key defender) 18.Rxe4 f5 19.Ra4 e4 20.Nh2? (Short misses a pretty tactical shot here with 20...Nd4! It almost equalizes.) 20…Nc6 21.Rc1 Ne5 22.d4 Nd3 23.dxc5 Bf4 24.Rc2 e3! 25.f3 Bg3 26.Nf1 Bf2ch 27.Kh1 Nf4 28.Qxd8 Raxd8 29.Rxf4 Rd1 (Beginning the final assault) 30.Re2 Bg3 31.Kg1 Bxf4 32.g4 Red8 33.Bb4 R8d4 34.Ba5 Rd5 35.Bb4 a5 36.Bxa5 Rxc5 37.Bb6 Rcc1 38.Bxe3 Rxf1ch 39.Kg2 Bxe3 40.Rxe3 Rfe1 41.Rd3 f4 0-1 A brilliant attacking game by the maestro!


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #168 - 11/23/12 at 14:34:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	What makes the 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Bd3!? variation at the class level so important is how many strong players got it wrong. In Gunsberg-Chigorin, Havana, 1890, Gunsberg-Lasker, London, 1892 and Moise-Capablanca, Topeka, 1909, the players of the Black pieces all played the plausible continuation 8…Bc5?! What is wrong with this move is that in the first two games, White just replied, 8.O-O and Black has very little for the pawn. In the first game, play continued 8…O-O 9.Nc3 Bb6 10.Be2? With 10.b4! Nb7 11.Qf3 +/= to +/-) In the second game, 8.Bd3 Bc5 9.O-O Nd5 10.Nf3 Nf4 11.Nc3 O-O 12.Be2 Nd5 (Lasker lacks a plan) 13.Nxd5 cxd5 14.Qd2? With the simple 14.c3! Black has no compensation for the pawn. In the final game Moise made a weak move and Capablanca, the future World Champion, made the same incredible oversight two moves in a row! 8.Bd3 Bc5 9.a3? O-O? (9…h6! 10.Ne4 Nxe4 11.Bxe4 Qh4! =/+ or Nb3! 10.cxb3 Qxd3 11.Qf3 Qxf3 12.Nxf3 Ng4 -/+) Capablanca misses this same tactical shot a second time! 10.O-O Nb7? (10…Nb3 =/+). Later in the game Moise missed a chance to secure a clear plus with 11.Nc3 Nd6 12.b4? (Why not just 12.Nge4 forcing favorable simplification?) One question as a theoretician is how many games where second best play is routine need to be examined before trying to determine best play for both sides? When two World Champions (I regard Chigorin as co-World Champion) and a future World Champion don’t play the opening particularly well why should we rely on practical results when looking at theory?


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #167 - 11/23/12 at 03:15:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	One of the few times I've gotten to play the Two Knights' Defense was in the Semi-Finals of the 1994 Golden Knights. Here is a game against Dudzik: 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Bd3 Nd5 9.Ne4 f5 10.Nec3! (I wanted to discourage a pawn storm on the Kingside to make sure my Knight wasn't trapped in front of the pawns) 10...Nf4 11.Bf1 Bc5 12.d3 Ng6 13.Be2 O-O 14.O-O Qh4 15.Qe1 +/= 1-0:35


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #166 - 11/23/12 at 02:50:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	sloughter wrote on 11/23/12 at 02:27:37: Bibs wrote on 11/22/12 at 12:21:04: Vass wrote on 11/21/12 at 15:37:15: @ sloughter I think you already have enough material for a whole book about Two Knights defense. Careful what you wish for: http://correspondencechess.com/moody.html The book is available for free---if you provide postage! What makes the Magic position remarkable is that it is the single best example of the weaknesses of computer programs. Place Black pawns on e6 and d6 and have White make the first move and Fritz 12 often plays 1.Kb1. In other words the computer sees no way to improve its position and just tries to increase the scope of its Rooks. This used to be a typical computer move when computers were much weaker. At game in 10 against Fritz 12, in two games I got an advantage with Black! Any human player would play 1.d5 e5 2.Nxe5 +- Obviously the computer sees that it is winning but tries to build for the attack often turning an evaluation of +- to +/- before deciding it has to sac to realize its advantage. Magic contains more fundamental chess principles that I have ever seen i.e. there are over 20 chess principles displayed in this game. While many players may have heard the phrase "Bad Bishop" it is tough to describe. If you look at the way I played against a Bad Bishop for 40 moves you will not find a better example of playing against a Bad Bishop. I turned a Bad Bishop into a dead Bishop. If you think this position with Black is easy to play, find a 1700 computer, give it at least one hour/move, and see if you can beat it. Good luck!


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #165 - 11/23/12 at 02:27:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	Bibs wrote on 11/22/12 at 12:21:04: Vass wrote on 11/21/12 at 15:37:15: @ sloughter I think you already have enough material for a whole book about Two Knights defense. Careful what you wish for: http://correspondencechess.com/moody.html The book is available for free---if you provide postage!


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #164 - 11/23/12 at 02:24:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	Vass wrote on 11/21/12 at 15:37:15: @ sloughter I think you already have enough material for a whole book about Two Knights defense. The difference is---it contains all the "ideas" developed over the years from a variety of chess professionals combined with the rigor of top chess engines. An earlier precomputer version of my Two Knights' book was given a good review by GM Andy Soltis writing for the New York Post. Here is the latest analysis. It looks like White gets a slight plus in the 8...Nce7 variation---not a blow out, but a trial and error position where White has no losing chances and decent winning prospects. The Fried Liver The Fried Liver (4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7) is one of the oldest openings in chess, and the superb attacking prospects of the first player were known as far as 1602 when Polerio won a spectacular attacking game against Domenico: 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nc3 Nce7 9.d4 c6 10.Bg5 h6 11.Bxe7 Bxe7 12.O-O-O Rf8 13.Qe4 Rxf2 14.dxe5 Bg5ch 15.Kb1 Rd2 16.h4! Rxd1ch 17.Rxd1 Bxh4 18.Nxd5 cxd5 19.Rxd5 Qg5 20.Rd6ch Ke7 21.Rg6 1-0 The key position that arises in the 8…Nce7 variation leaves Black with a difficult endgame with some losing prospects and no winning prospects. This occurs in the following variation: 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nc3 Nce7 9.d4 c6 10.Bg5 h6 11.Bxe7 Bxe7 12.dxe5 Bb4?! 13.Bxd5 Qxd5 14.Qg4ch Kf7 15.Qxb4 Qxe5ch 16.Qe4 (Black’s drawing prospects improve by keeping Queens on the board) 16…Re8 17.Qxe5 Rxe5ch 18.Kd2 +/= According to Houdini Black can’t improve with 12…b5 13.Bb3! Bb4 14.O-O Bxc3 15.Qxc3 Bb7 16.a4 a6 17.Qh3ch Kf7 18.Qf5ch Ke7 19.Rfe1 & White has a lot of pressure.


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Vass God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1105 Joined: 06/22/11	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #163 - 11/22/12 at 14:12:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	Bibs wrote on 11/22/12 at 12:21:04: Vass wrote on 11/21/12 at 15:37:15: @ sloughter I think you already have enough material for a whole book about Two Knights defense. Careful what you wish for: http://correspondencechess.com/moody.html A-ha! So we are lucky, because we have a brand new Two Knights Defense book for free, as it seems.


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Bibs God Member Offline Posts: 2343 Joined: 10/24/06	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #162 - 11/22/12 at 12:21:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Vass wrote on 11/21/12 at 15:37:15: @ sloughter I think you already have enough material for a whole book about Two Knights defense. Careful what you wish for: http://correspondencechess.com/moody.html


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Vass God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1105 Joined: 06/22/11	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #161 - 11/21/12 at 15:37:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	@ sloughter I think you already have enough material for a whole book about Two Knights defense.


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #160 - 11/21/12 at 15:01:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	sloughter wrote on 11/19/12 at 21:26:06: The next candidate move by Black seems to be slightly better than 9…h6. Black has pressure for the pawn; the position is dynamic with the initiative balancing the pawn deficit: I 8.Qf3 Be7 9.Bd3 O-O 10.O-O h6 11.Ne4 Nd5 12.Qd1 (I got a good game with this move against Fritz 12, but decided to look at this in more detail with Houdini and Fritz 12) 12…f5 13.Nec3 Nf4 14.Be2 Nxe2ch (After 2 hours both engines chose this move; White gives up the minor exchange to simplify the position) 15.Qxe2 Bd6 (The Bishop has to be repositioned in order to attack) 16.Rd1! e4! (To discourage d3) 17.d4! (White fights for space) 17…Qc7 18.g3 Be6 19.b3 Rad8 20.Ba3 Nb7 (Bxa3 20.Nxa3 +/=) 20.Bxd6 Nxd6 =/with comp. To get the full benefit from computer analysis, it is not a good idea to reject moves for "obvious" reasons. Here I recommended a second best move for White because I feared 17...Ba6 thinking that Black had equalized, but both Fritz 12 and Houdini are "unafraid" of the pin. 17.d3! Ba6 18.Nd2! Qf6 19.Nb3 Rfe8 20.Be3 Nxb3 21.axb3 exd3 22.cxd3 Bb7 23.Qf3 Qe5 24.g3 Qe6 25.Nb5! With this pretty tactical shot White is slightly better. The following move sequence is plausible but not forced---cxb5 26.Qxb7 Qxb3 27.Bxa7 f4 (There are other choices) 28.Bd6 Bf8 29.Rxa8! Qxd1ch 30.Kg2 f3ch 31.Kh3 Rxa8 32.Qxa8 Qxd3 33.Qd5ch +/= White can maneuver against the two weak Black pawns and is guaranteed being a pawn up in a Queen and pawn ending. This is difficult for humans to play so Black, at a practical level, would have excellent drawing chances. However, at a theoretical level, White is much better.


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #159 - 11/21/12 at 04:05:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	The next game is Morozevich-Sokolov, Sarajevo, 1999: 6.Bb5ch Bd7 7.Qe2 Bd6?! 8.Nc3?! (Pinski mentions 8…c6 and, indeed this seems good for equality; that is why White cannot afford to play 8.Nc3. White has little better than give up the minor exchange after 9.dxc6 [Nge4 Nxe4 10.Nxe4 Be7 11.dxc6 Nxc6 12.c3 If White doesn’t want to give up the minor exchange this is pretty much forced. After 12…O-O 13.O-O a6 14.Ba4?! This is second best; like it or not White has to play 14.Bd3 when Black seems okay. After Pinski’s suggestion of 14.Ba4?! Nd4! [Not analyzed by Pinski] 15.cxd4 Bxa4 16.Nc3 Qxd4 17.Nxa4 Qxa4 18.Qxe5 Bf6 19.Qd5 b5 & Black is slightly better. The alternative is to give up the minor exchange with 8.Nc3 c6 9.dxc6 Nxc6 10.Bxc6 Bxc6 11.O-O O-O 12.d3 Bc7 & the Bishops on the open board give Black excellent compensation. Pinski is correct here. Now we return to Morozevich-Sokolov: 8…O-O 9.Bxd7 (This is why it was critical to play 8…c6; now White avoids giving up the minor exchange or being forced to make other concessions. 9…Qxd7 10.a3! b6 11.d3 [11.O-O Nb7? 12.d3 {This obvious move is possible because Black’s King Bishop blocks communication between the Queen and the pawn on d5---both engines give White an advantage of between +/= and +/- About the only try for Black is 12…Nc5 but White is still better. The question though is whether Black can improve on 11…Nb7. This seems unlikely; about the only candidate move left is to try 11…Be7 going after the pawn on d5. But then White has 12.Qxe5 forcing Black to demonstrate compensation for two pawns. This seems doubtful after 12…Rfe8 13.Nge4 & Both engines give White a nice edge; thus is would appear that 11.O-O is at least as good as 11.d3}] Back to the game: 11.d3 c6 Pinksi awards this an (?!) but Black misses a simple tactical shot---11…Bc5!? when 12.b4 runs into Bd4 so White has to try something like 12.O-O Nxd5 13.Qxe5 Nxc3 14.bxc3 [Qxc3 Bd4 =] Rae8 14.Qg3 Qc6 15.d4 Be7 16.Qd3 Bxg5 17.Bxg5 Nc4 18.Rfe1 Rxe1ch 19.Rxd1 Nxa3 20.Ra1 Nb5 21.c4 Nd6 22.Rxa7 Nxc4 & Black has made progress towards equality. 12.b4 Nb7 13.dxc6 Qxc6 14.Nce4 Nd7? From now on the game has very little theoretical interest because White just plays 15.O-O with a plus, or the game continuation 15.Qf3 (With a threatened discovery on the Queen) Be7 16.Nxh7! Rfc8 17.Nhg5 f6 18.Nh3 Qxc2 [a5 +/=] 19.O-O Nd8 20.Be3 Qc6 21.d4 +/- 1-0:41


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #158 - 11/20/12 at 21:54:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	In one of the variations that is becoming more popular the starting moves are 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch Bd7!? 7.Qe2 Be7 (This is one of the main lines) 8.Nf3!? (I will address alternatives below---Pinksi doesn’t analyze this variation) 8…O-O (This is a natural response; there doesn’t appear to be anything better. Wasting a tempo with e4 seems like a bad idea and if 8…Bxb5 9.Qxb5ch c6 10.dxc6 Nxc6 & the White Queen winds up on a better square than the main lines) 9.Nxe5 Bxb5 10.Qxb5 Qxd5 11.Qxd5 Nxd5 12.O-O Rfe8 13.d3 Rad8 14.c3 (This is an improvement on those lines where White plays an early Nc3; Black, in some variations, can open the c-file with c6, capture on c6 with the Knight and then tie the Queen Knight to the c3 square because c2 hangs in some variations once Black plays Rac8) Bf6 15.Nf3 c5 16.Re1 (Even if Black regains a pawn here the position is probably equal as long as White gets any kind of positional compensation for the pawn; the longer White keeps the pawn, the tougher it is for Black to equalize) Let’s follow the game Short-Hector---5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch Bd7 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Nc3 O-O 9.O-O Bg4?! (This is tricky but doesn’t quite equalize. After 10.Qxe5 c6 [Pinski recommends 10…Bd6 but after 11.Qd4! c5 12.Qa4, play might continue 12…a6 13.Nge4 Nxe4 14.Qxe4 Qc8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.Qf3 Bxc2 17.d3 +/-] 11.Nge4! [With the threat of d6] 11…Nxd5 12.Nxd5 c6 [The Queen is trapped in the center of the board, but two pawns is still two pawns. Black has compensation for one pawn, but is there compensation for two pawns?] 13.Ba4! cxd5 14.h3 Bd6 15.Qd4 +/=) 10.f3 Bh5 11.Qxe5 Bg6 [Pinski suggests 11…Bd6, but this seems doubtful after 12.Qe1 c6 13.dxc6 Nxc6 {bxc6 is no better} 14.Bxc6 bxc6 15.Qf2 & there is very little compensation for two pawns] 12.Nge4! a6 13.Bd3 (I prefer 13.Be2 Re8 14.Qd4 b6 15.Qf2 Nxd5 16.Nxd5 Qxd5 17.d3 Nc6 18.Be3 Nb4 19.Bd1 & Black is struggling to find compensation for the pawn) Back to Short-Hector 13…Re8 14.Kh1 b5 15.a3 Nb7?! & Pinksi is right---this is too slow. After 15…Nh5! it gets really messy and Black has far more compensation for the pawns. Here are some of the remaining moves of the game: 16.Qg3 Nh5 17.Qf2 f5 18.g4 fxe4 19.gxf5 Bh4 20.Qg2 exf3 21.Qxf3 Bxd3 22.Qxd3 Qg5 23.b3 Nd6 24.Bb2 Qxh5 25.Qh3 Qh6 26.Rg1 Bg5 27.Qxh6 Bxh6 28.d3 & according to Pinski, “White is clear pawn up and should win.” 1-0:44


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #157 - 11/20/12 at 16:29:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	sloughter wrote on 11/19/12 at 23:51:41: While practical play can provide guidance all too often it deviates quickly from best play. Here White makes a strategic blunder and Pinski in The Two Knights Defence, doesn’t even question it. The critical variation is reached after: 8.Qf3 h6?! 9.Ne4 Nd5 10.Ba4! In the game Van der Wiel-Spassky, Reggio Emilia, 1986/87 White made the strategic blunder 10.Nbc3? This is wrong for four reasons: 1)It gives up the Bishop pair on an open board, 2)It repairs Black’s pawn structure, and 3)It frees the c6 square for the Knight, 4)It opens up the long diagonal for the Queen Bishop. No wonder Black is doing well! With the superior 10.Ba4 here is analysis from Fritz 12 and Houdini: After this move both engines have White slightly better. Here are a few additional moves to clarify the position: 10…Be7 11.O-O O-O 12.d3 f5 13.Nec3 Be6 14.Re1 Bd6 15.Bd2 Rb8 16.Bb3 Nxb3 17.axb3 Nb4 18.Na3 & it is difficult to see compensation for the pawn. Pinski, The Two Knights Defence, evaluates 8.Qf3 as ?! This is, in large measure, the result of inferior over the board play and dubious analysis. Take, for example, the following game, Spiegel-Mari Arul, Calcutta, 1997: 8.Qf3 Rb8 9.Bd3 h6?! (This does not mesh very well with Rb8 because it forces White to do exactly what he wants to do mainly 10.Ne4 Nd5 11.b3 (of course) 11...Nf4 (The "threat" of doubling the d-pawns can be ignored here; in the above game White played the horrible 12.Bf1. White should just hit e5 with 12.Bb2. After this move, Fritz 12 has this as +- & Houdini has this as +/= to +/- Now Pinski gives 12...Nxd3 13.Qxd3? (Why?) White wants to meet the defensive of e5 difficult e.g. 13.cxd3 f6 14.Qh5ch +/- to +- Both Fritz and Houdini recommend removing the Rook from danger with 13...Rb7. White chops on 14.Bxe5 Re7 15.Qg3 & both Fritz and Houdini give a big advantage White. Black can't try to win a piece with 15...f5 because of 16.Qg6ch so White is simply better.


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #156 - 11/19/12 at 23:51:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	While practical play can provide guidance all too often it deviates quickly from best play. Here White makes a strategic blunder and Pinski in The Two Knights Defence, doesn’t even question it. The critical variation is reached after: 8.Qf3 h6?! 9.Ne4 Nd5 10.Ba4! In the game Van der Wiel-Spassky, Reggio Emilia, 1986/87 White made the strategic blunder 10.Nbc3? This is wrong for four reasons: 1)It gives up the Bishop pair on an open board, 2)It repairs Black’s pawn structure, and 3)It frees the c6 square for the Knight, 4)It opens up the long diagonal for the Queen Bishop. No wonder Black is doing well! With the superior 10.Ba4 here is analysis from Fritz 12 and Houdini: After this move both engines have White slightly better. Here are a few additional moves to clarify the position: 10…Be7 11.O-O O-O 12.d3 f5 13.Nec3 Be6 14.Re1 Bd6 15.Bd2 Rb8 16.Bb3 Nxb3 17.axb3 Nb4 18.Na3 & it is difficult to see compensation for the pawn.


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense Reply #155 - 11/19/12 at 21:26:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	The next candidate move by Black seems to be slightly better than 9…h6. Black has pressure for the pawn; the position is dynamic with the initiative balancing the pawn deficit: 8.Qf3 Be7 9.Bd3 O-O 10.O-O h6 11.Ne4 Nd5 12.Qd1 (I got a good game with this move against Fritz 12, but decided to look at this in more detail with Houdini and Fritz 12) 12…f5 13.Nec3 Nf4 14.Be2 Nxe2ch (After 2 hours both engines chose this move; White gives up the minor exchange to simplify the position) 15.Qxe2 Bd6 (The Bishop has to be repositioned in order to attack) 16.Rd1! e4! (To discourage d3) 17.d4! (White fights for space) 16…Qc7 18.g3 Be6 19.b3 Rad8 19.Ba3 Nb7 (Bxa3 20.Nxa3 +/=) 20.Bxd6 Nxd6 =/with comp.


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