(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. e4 e5 - Non-Spanish › 2 Knights › C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
(Moderators: Smyslov_Fan, Jupp53, trw)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 13
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense (Read 21204 times)
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #154 - 11/19/12 at 18:14:05
Post Tools
This is another subvariation of the 11...Nf4 try. Black  does worse here than in the Bb7 line:

8.Qf3 Be7 9.Bd3 h6 10.Ne4 Nd5 11.Ng3 Nf4 12.Bf5 Ba6 13.Be4! O-O 14.d3 g6 15.Nc3 Qb6 16.O-O f5?! (Rad8 +/= or Rfe8 +/=) 17.Bxf4 exf4 18.Qxf4 Bg5 (Black can't allow Qxh6) 19.Qd6 Rf6 20.Bd5ch! Kh8 21.Qa3 cxd5 22.Nxd5 Qd8 23.Nxf6 Bxf6 24.b4! Bxa1 25.Rxa1 Qf6 26.Rb1 +/-
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #153 - 11/19/12 at 17:15:38
Post Tools

This is another subvariation of the most difficult variation for White:

8.Qf3 Be7 9.Bd3 h6 10.Ne4 Nd5 11.Ng3 Nf4 12.Bf5 Bb7 13.Ne2 c5 (O-O 14.Nxf4 +/=) 14.Be4 Bxe4 15.Qxe4 Nxe2 16.Qxe2 O-O 17.O-O Nc6 18.d3 (18.c3?! [This weakens the d3 square and gives Black just enough initiative to regain the pawn.] Qd5 19.Na3 e4! 20.Nc4 Rfe8 21.Ne3 Qe6 22.d3 Bg5! 23.dxe4 Qxe4 24.Rd1 Rad8 25.Rxd8 Rxd8 26.Kf1 Ne5 27.Nc2 Qxe2ch 28.Kxe2 Bxc1 29.Rxc1 Nd3 30.Rb1 [Rd1? Nf4ch =/+] Nxf2 31.Ne3 =  to +/=) 18…Nd4 19.Qd1 +/=



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #152 - 11/18/12 at 15:25:22
Post Tools
sloughter wrote on 11/15/12 at 21:32:12:
Vass wrote on 10/26/12 at 15:58:11:
sloughter wrote on 10/26/12 at 15:25:36:
Vass wrote on 10/25/12 at 08:50:34:
@TN
Still it's a progress..
Could have been worse, you know..  Wink


While the main lines after 8...Rb8 seem pretty good for Black, some of the alternatives favor White. Here Black can regain the pawn but it favors White:

8...Rb8 9.Bd3 Rb4?! 10.Nc3 Rg4 (Rf4 11.Qe2 +/=) 11.Nge4 Nd5 12.Nxd5 Qxd5 (cxb5 13.Bb5ch) 13.Ng3 Qxf3 14.gxf3 Rf4 15.b3 & It doesn't matter whether or not Black regains the pawn, both Fritz 12 and Houdini 2 rate this as +/= to +/-.


Imho 8....Be7 is better than 8...Rb8. Nevertheless, after 8...Rb8 9.Bd3 I think black can try 9...Bd6!? Look at this correspondence game:



13.b3 is not a good move obviously, but I think black is doing fine even after the better 13.g4 move.  Cool


Here is a variation which I analyzed with both Houdini 2 and Fritz 12. White seems to have a safe plus:

8.Qf3 Rb8 9.Bd3 Bd6 10.Nc3 Bg4 11.Qg3 e4 12.Qe3 O-O 13.Ngxe4 Nxe4 14.Nxe4 Re8 15.f3 Bd7 16.g4 c5 17.Be2 c4 18.b3 Be5 19.Rb1 f5 20.gxf5 Bxf5 21.Bb2 Bxb2 22.Rxb2 Bxe4 23.fxe4 Qh4ch 24.Kd1 Rxe4 25.Qg3 Qd8 26.Re1 +/=


Here is the summary of additional analysis and practical play in the 9.Bd3 Bd6 variation:

8.Qf3 Rb8 9.Bd3 Bd6!? 10.Nc3 (This is a critical improvement over Pavel-Kotyurgin, Corr. 10.h3 h6 11.Ne4 Nxe4 12.Bxe4 O-O 13.b3? (g4 is critical with about an equal position) 13…f5 -/+ 

The next try is 10.O-O as in Razvan-Chiru, Corr., which led to a draw, but Black seemed to have too much material for the Queen. The chess engines give Black a slight plus. Here are a few additional moves: 10…Bg4 11.Qg3 e4 12.Qe3 O-O 13.Nxe4 Nxe4 14.Bxe4 Re8 15.h3 Nc4 16.Qd3 Ne5 17.Qc3 Be2 18.Re1 Ba6 19.d4 Bb4 20.dxe5 Bxc3 =/+)) 

10…Bg4 11.Qg3 e4 12.Qe3 O-O 13.Ngxe4 Nxe4 14.Nxe4 Re8 15.f3 Bd7 16.g4 f5?! (16…h5 17.h3 c5 18.Be2 Be5 19.Kd1 c4 20.Rb1 c3 22.Nxc3 Nc6 23.b3 +/=) 17.gxf5 Bxf5 18.b3 Be5 19.Rb1 Bd4 20.Qf4 Rf8 21.Kd1 c5 22.Ba3 & Black doesn’t have enough for the pawns. 

This is based on analysis by Houdini 2, but it doesn't seem that Black does any better than the more common 9...Be7

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #151 - 11/16/12 at 19:38:52
Post Tools
8.Qf3 Rb8 Black offers the sacrifice of a pawn with this move but it is dangerous to accept the pawn: 9.Bxc6ch?! Nxc6 10.Qxc6ch Nd7 (Bd7? 11.Qc4 Qe7 12.Nc3 +/=) 11.d3 Be7 12.Nf3 (Ne4 Rb6 13.Qc4 Bb7 14.f3 Rc6 15.Qb3 Rb6 = Morin-Cottegni, Corr. or 12.Ne4 Rb6 13.Qc4 f5?! 14.Ng3 Rb4 15.Qxa7! Bb7 16.a3 Bc5 17.Qxc5! Nxc5 18.axb4 +/= Malmstrom-Law, Corr. or 12.Ne4 Bb7? 13.Qa4? (Nd6ch Bxd6 14.Qxd6 Bxg2 15.Rg1 Rb6 16.Qa3 Rg6 17.Be3 +/=) f5 14.Nec3 Bxg2 15.Rg1 Rb4 16.Qxa7 Bc5 17.Qa6 Rb6 18.Qc4 Rg6 19.Ne2 Qb6 20.Be3 Bxe3 21.fxe3 Qxe3 = 1/2 -1/2 Reinscher-Zachau, Corr.)  Bb7 13.Qa4 Bxf3 14.gxf3 O-O White now can try to reposition his Queen. 15.Qg4 Nf6 16.Qg3 Qc7 17.Rg1 g6 18.Nc3 Bb4 19.Bd2 Ba5 20.O-O-O (Rb1 Bxc3 21.Bxc3 Nd5 -/+) Rfc8 21.Rde1 Qb6 22.Nd1 Nd7 23.Re2 Bxd2ch 24.Rxd2 Qa5 25.a3 Nc5 -/+

« Last Edit: 11/17/12 at 02:21:57 by sloughter »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #150 - 11/15/12 at 21:32:12
Post Tools
Vass wrote on 10/26/12 at 15:58:11:
sloughter wrote on 10/26/12 at 15:25:36:
Vass wrote on 10/25/12 at 08:50:34:
@TN
Still it's a progress..
Could have been worse, you know..  Wink


While the main lines after 8...Rb8 seem pretty good for Black, some of the alternatives favor White. Here Black can regain the pawn but it favors White:

8...Rb8 9.Bd3 Rb4?! 10.Nc3 Rg4 (Rf4 11.Qe2 +/=) 11.Nge4 Nd5 12.Nxd5 Qxd5 (cxb5 13.Bb5ch) 13.Ng3 Qxf3 14.gxf3 Rf4 15.b3 & It doesn't matter whether or not Black regains the pawn, both Fritz 12 and Houdini 2 rate this as +/= to +/-.


Imho 8....Be7 is better than 8...Rb8. Nevertheless, after 8...Rb8 9.Bd3 I think black can try 9...Bd6!? Look at this correspondence game:



13.b3 is not a good move obviously, but I think black is doing fine even after the better 13.g4 move.  Cool


Here is a variation which I analyzed with both Houdini 2 and Fritz 12. White seems to have a safe plus:

8.Qf3 Rb8 9.Bd3 Bd6 10.Nc3 Bg4 11.Qg3 e4 12.Qe3 O-O 13.Ngxe4 Nxe4 14.Nxe4 Re8 15.f3 Bd7 16.g4 c5 17.Be2 c4 18.b3 Be5 19.Rb1 f5 20.gxf5 Bxf5 21.Bb2 Bxb2 22.Rxb2 Bxe4 23.fxe4 Qh4ch 24.Kd1 Rxe4 25.Qg3 Qd8 26.Re1 +/=
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #149 - 10/30/12 at 12:42:27
Post Tools
Bibs wrote on 10/30/12 at 12:00:25:
"It's your move...well I'm the only one here..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9CkhBb18E


I'm on dialup---can't watch videos.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2343
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #148 - 10/30/12 at 12:00:25
Post Tools
"It's your move...well I'm the only one here..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9CkhBb18E
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #147 - 10/29/12 at 17:36:10
Post Tools
Jupp53 wrote on 10/29/12 at 16:59:13:
ROFL
Maybe you have another 130 posts.  Grin


Just one to complete the preliminary analysis:

8.Qf3 Bd7?! 9.Ba4 (Once again White gains a tempo compared to Bd3 or Be2. Not surprisingly White  is better.) 9...Be7 10.Nc3 Qb6 11.d3 O-O 12.O-O Ng4 13.h3 Nxf2 14.Rxf2 Bxg5 15.Bxg5 Qxb2 16.Rd1 Qxc3 17.Be7! (The sting at the end of the combination) Be6 18.Bxf8 Rxf8 19.Bb3 Nxb3 20.axb3 +/- 

Black has only a pawn for the exchange and has a busted pawn structure to boot.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #146 - 10/29/12 at 16:59:13
Post Tools
ROFL
Maybe you have another 130 posts.  Grin
  
Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #145 - 10/29/12 at 16:33:34
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 10/29/12 at 14:41:40:
Sloughter, I really must object your posting  thirteen(!) times in a row. These forums are supposed to be conversations.


So---begin the conversation!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #144 - 10/29/12 at 15:40:49
Post Tools
Shocked
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #143 - 10/29/12 at 15:25:50
Post Tools
Maybe he's trying to illustrate how it could have been worse Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #142 - 10/29/12 at 14:41:40
Post Tools
Sloughter, I really must object your posting  thirteen(!) times in a row. These forums are supposed to be conversations.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #141 - 10/29/12 at 12:39:08
Post Tools
Vass wrote on 10/25/12 at 08:50:34:
@TN
Still it's a progress..
Could have been worse, you know..  Wink


This little played line is as good as anything else:

8.Qf3 Bb7 9.Bd3 Be7 10.O-O O-O 11.Nc3 c5 12.Nge4 Nd5 13.Qf5 c4 14.Nxd5 cxd3 15.Nxe7ch Qxe7 16.c3 Rad8 17.b3 f6 18.Re1 g6 19.Qg4 f5 20.Qg5 Qc7 21.Nf6ch Kg7 22.Nh5ch Kh8 23.Ng3 Nc6 24.Ba3 +/=
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sloughter
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Location: schoharie
Joined: 12/29/08
Gender: Male
Re: C58: New try main line Two Knights Defense
Reply #140 - 10/29/12 at 03:35:26
Post Tools
Vass wrote on 10/25/12 at 08:50:34:
@TN
Still it's a progress..
Could have been worse, you know..  Wink


This is the final exchange sac variation. Black starts out the opening down the exchange and a pawn and winds up in an endgame down a piece for a pawn. Most of Black's moves are either forced or "obvious".

8.Qf3 cxb5 9.Qxa8 Be7!? 10.d3 O-O 11.O-O Qc7 12.Qf3 Qxc2 13.Nc3 Rd8 14.Be3 Qxb2 15.Nce4 Qa3 16.Rac1 Bb7 17.Rc7 Bxe4 18.Nxe4 Qxd3 19.Rxe7 Qxe4 20.Qxe4 Nxe4 21.Rxe5 Nc3 22.Bd2 Nc4 23.Bxc3 Nxe5 24.Bxe5 +-
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 13
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge