Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The ultimate draw rule (Read 20156 times)
IMJohnCox
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1551
Location: London
Joined: 01/28/06
Gender: Male
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #46 - 03/24/14 at 13:55:19
Post Tools
It seems to me that what is really required in order to end this deeply, deeply tedious debate is a similar measure to that proposed with regard to draw offers - viz., any public comment on how to reduce the 'draw problem' should be the last such comment which that poster is permitted to make for a period of five years.

In that way we could possibly - just possibly - spend less time discussing this non-problem and concentrate on the fabulous chess being played around the world in, for example, the present Candidates tournament.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 1073
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #45 - 03/24/14 at 13:36:28
Post Tools
GeneM wrote on 03/24/14 at 04:41:26:
.
Maybe FIDE should authorize the equal sign '=' as an official part of chess notation? Because yes, omitting information that a draw offer occurred is just wrong; and is easily fixed.[/color]
.

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article
C.13
The offer of a draw shall be marked as (=)

So fide already did but i notice that the sign is almost never included when the games are digitized and most players don't care much about this rule (myself included).
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
GeneM
Senior Member
****
Offline


Tournament winner gets
two fun filled knights!

Posts: 303
Location: near Seattle WA USA
Joined: 01/12/08
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #44 - 03/24/14 at 04:41:26
Post Tools
.
Axl wrote on 03/17/14 at 14:58:19:
The trouble is it's hard to know with any precision how many of the draws by agreement are actually pre-arranged.

5 moves is better than a permanent offer

draw offers have to be clearly signaled, and shown by the electronic boards. It's not enough to put = on the scoresheet. This doesn't help anyone following online.

When I look at stalemates in my Mega Base 2006 DVD, I see numerous games which all have nearly the same odd moves that lead to a stalemate: the stalemates seems highly prearranged, but I cannot be sure.
Has anyone else looked at the stalemates? If you have, you have definitely noticed how similar most of those games are. Do you think they are prearranged?

-- -- -- --

One way or another, the lifetime of a draw offer should be increased, even if by only one move. This has the advantage of being an "Off-the-Board" rule change, which does not directly affect anything about chess itself. And it could be nicely effective.

-- -- -- --

Maybe FIDE should authorize the equal sign '=' as an official part of chess notation? Because yes, omitting information that a draw offer occurred is just wrong; and is easily fixed.

.
  

GeneM , CastleLong.com , FRC-chess960
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 1073
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #43 - 03/19/14 at 18:03:21
Post Tools
It is of course wishful thinking. I remember 2 years ago that I requested the arbiter even after some moves played, to change the board. The plastic board was so dirty, sticky and smelly of beer that it was disgusting.
Mechanical clocks are becoming rare but are still sometimes used as some clubs don't buy (sufficient) electronic clocks.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
LGXIII
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 38
Joined: 11/08/13
Gender: Male
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #42 - 03/19/14 at 16:12:57
Post Tools
brabo wrote on 03/17/14 at 20:20:11:
Axl wrote on 03/17/14 at 14:58:19:

First of all, however, draw offers have to be clearly signaled, and shown by the electronic boards. It's not enough to put = on the scoresheet. This doesn't help anyone following online.

I am strongly in favor of using more and better electronic boards so that we can abolish the traditional scoresheet. It would certainly improve the way of playing with the 30 second increment as now too much time is spent on recording the moves instead of actually playing good moves. However today only a small % is using electronic boards and there certainly exists resistance to oblige everybody using electronic boards.


Also, a cost.... I cannot imagine a weekend open on 40 to 60 boards with DGT for everyone.

It is already a rare occasion when everyone has a full wooden set....and It even still happens that lower boards in some tournaments have mechanical clocks ... Huh
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 1073
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #41 - 03/17/14 at 20:20:11
Post Tools
Axl wrote on 03/17/14 at 14:58:19:

First of all, however, draw offers have to be clearly signaled, and shown by the electronic boards. It's not enough to put = on the scoresheet. This doesn't help anyone following online.

I am strongly in favor of using more and better electronic boards so that we can abolish the traditional scoresheet. It would certainly improve the way of playing with the 30 second increment as now too much time is spent on recording the moves instead of actually playing good moves. However today only a small % is using electronic boards and there certainly exists resistance to oblige everybody using electronic boards.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 1073
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #40 - 03/17/14 at 20:11:36
Post Tools
Axl wrote on 03/17/14 at 14:58:19:

The trouble is it's hard to know with any precision how many of the draws by agreement are actually pre-arranged.

I have now 236 draws recorded in my personal database and I can confidently claim that 0% was pre-arranged. However I am not a fool to believe such pre-arranged draws don't exist as I mentioned in my article :http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2013/04/copycats.html
However it is not only pre-arranged draws which exist but also fixing losses/wins as I described in http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2012/07/afgesproken-resultaat-in-open-gent-of.h...
I can't really make any serious claim if this is more specific for professional chess or it happens as often in amateur chess.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Axl
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 8
Joined: 02/28/14
Gender: Male
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #39 - 03/17/14 at 14:58:19
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/15/12 at 00:55:58:

I don't see a problem with a large number of draws as long as the games are true fights and the decision is not pre-arranged.


The trouble is it's hard to know with any precision how many of the draws by agreement are actually pre-arranged.

5 moves is better than a permanent offer because it avoids the problem of disincentivising the person in the marginally superior position from offering. He/she would just have to be confident not to blunder in the next 5 moves. The opponent in the inferior position will have to accept, in that case, or else they lose the option.

It increases dramatic tension in an otherwise lifeless position.

First of all, however, draw offers have to be clearly signaled, and shown by the electronic boards. It's not enough to put = on the scoresheet. This doesn't help anyone following online.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
brabo
God Member
*****
Offline


Welcome chessfriend

Posts: 1073
Joined: 02/02/07
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #38 - 03/11/14 at 13:14:55
Post Tools
I managed for myself to decrease the number of short draws (compared with sofia rules) with 1/3 which decreased the number of draws with 20%: http://chess-brabo.blogspot.be/2014/03/sofia-rules.html
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #37 - 08/15/12 at 01:16:50
Post Tools
TalJechin wrote on 08/10/12 at 06:30:26:
Markovich wrote on 08/10/12 at 02:09:58:
I really don't see what the big problem is. Lots of great games are being played. So what if there are some 16-move draws? Chess is chess; if you don't like it, take up tiddly winks.


Another memo from the Tiger Oil Company  Grin

You could forward it to fide and other organisers who use the Sofia rules and similar draw-stopping ideas...


That's the thing about chess organizers, you know?  Just like all librarians hate books, all chess organizers hate chess.  If they were any good at it, they wouldn't be organizers, would they?  Just like librarians can't write.

I once spoke to a woman who was corporate librarian to the company for which I worked; her husband and was a top librarian for the State of Ohio.  She said, "We have no books of our own; when we want a book, we check it out, and we return it on time".  That in a nutshell is the very attitude of the world's chess organizers; they have no idea how to play, but they will make damn sure that everything happens just so.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #36 - 08/15/12 at 00:55:58
Post Tools
The Russian championship has been lambasted by chessbase for its high draw rate. Almost all the games lasted more than 30 moves, most of them were fights, but there were still quite a few draws. 

If you want fewer draws, play faster time controls. Or better yet, play a different game entirely. I don't see a problem with a large number of draws as long as the games are true fights and the decision is not pre-arranged.  Let the players decide when or whether to offer draws. And the organizers can invite whoever they want to big tournaments.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dre
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/13/07
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #35 - 08/14/12 at 22:47:57
Post Tools
The soccer score with 3 points for wins and 1 for draw is the best way to prevent short draws. I don't believe in stupid rules like those suggested in this thread. Very often in order to win the players have to take risks, and if it is more to win and less to lose taking risk because of the scoring system then more and more players will do that. I agree that measures has to be taken to cut down the number of draws. Take the latest russian championship  for men for instance. The cross table is a tragic sight.

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8408
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
God Member
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #34 - 08/10/12 at 10:22:47
Post Tools
TalJechin wrote on 08/10/12 at 06:30:26:
Markovich wrote on 08/10/12 at 02:09:58:
I really don't see what the big problem is. Lots of great games are being played. So what if there are some 16-move draws? Chess is chess; if you don't like it, take up tiddly winks.


Another memo from the Tiger Oil Company  Grin

You could forward it to fide and other organisers who use the Sofia rules and similar draw-stopping ideas...


They won't understand because they're too filled up with numbers and can't see the life before.  Sad That's why they have to force their style of living upon everything.  Angry
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #33 - 08/10/12 at 06:30:26
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 08/10/12 at 02:09:58:
I really don't see what the big problem is. Lots of great games are being played. So what if there are some 16-move draws? Chess is chess; if you don't like it, take up tiddly winks.


Another memo from the Tiger Oil Company  Grin

You could forward it to fide and other organisers who use the Sofia rules and similar draw-stopping ideas...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: The ultimate draw rule
Reply #32 - 08/10/12 at 02:09:58
Post Tools
I really don't see what the big problem is. Lots of great games are being played. So what if there are some 16-move draws? Chess is chess; if you don't like it, take up tiddly winks.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo