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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it (Read 25215 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #17 - 08/06/15 at 04:19:27
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yolocounty wrote on 08/06/15 at 03:14:59:

Isn't 8. ...Ng4 pretty much obligatory there?  It is the main line of 8. d5 Ne7 9. Be3 (and of 7. Be3), and it is hard to see how omitting d4-d5 makes it less attractive.  Quite the opposite, in fact.

That said, 8. ...Re8 and even 8. ...exd4 have some recent database games, so who knows.


Eh?   8...Re8 (played in e.g. Larsen-Fischer, one of the latter's 60 memorable games) and 8...Ng4 are both old main book moves.  I believe 8...Re8 used to be considered the clearest equalizer.  8...ed 9. Nxd4 Re8 10. f3 would be a position known from 7...ed, as Glek started playing it in the '90s.
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #16 - 08/06/15 at 03:14:59
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Quote:
Back to the topic: 6...e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Be3 can lead to a different sort of Exchange line with 8...Re8 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.h3 which requires Black to find some good moves before he can claim equality. After 10.Qxd8 there were a couple of Fischer's games which showed how to play as Black. Obviously you can avoid this with 8...Ng4, a move other than 7...Nc6 or some alternative to 6...e5, but it shows that 7.dxe5 isn't the only Exchange Variation at White's disposal.


Isn't 8. ...Ng4 pretty much obligatory there?  It is the main line of 8. d5 Ne7 9. Be3 (and of 7. Be3), and it is hard to see how omitting d4-d5 makes it less attractive.  Quite the opposite, in fact.

That said, 8. ...Re8 and even 8. ...exd4 have some recent database games, so who knows.
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #15 - 12/11/12 at 22:54:41
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strange, the exchange is one of my fav lines to play against, d4 is great outpost.
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #14 - 12/11/12 at 17:59:17
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Well, this only shows the limitations of even very strong engines and even more so of their "operators" Wink.
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #13 - 12/11/12 at 17:04:07
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Also Houdini 1.5, and probably other strong software, evaluates the exchange variation after  6be2 e5 as the best line for white. Quite a few coorespondence players play isn't very "advanced", and they are more like software operators. So 7pxp gets played even though GM opinion is that it isn't much at all for white.
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #12 - 08/20/12 at 15:30:13
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@ MartinC
Many people think it's difficult to win in the opening because the DBs , difficult in middlegame because analysis engines
It leaves only the endgame , since engines are reputed to be weak in this phase of game
I disagree , but I am quite alone in my opinion
Most high-level players think that a difference cn be done  only in endgame , and they choose an opening where they by-pass opening and middlegame and jump to ending as directly as possible
My aim is to find sidelines correct but crazy that enable me to win in a strategic way
I succeeded for some , for others I still search
  
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MartinC
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #11 - 08/20/12 at 08:52:45
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You're getting people playing resolutely for a draw with white in fairly high level correspondence games? That really does seem an astonishing use of time.

Send them an early, gently insulting draw offer and move on I think Wink (From elsewhere here it seems hard enough to win any CC game!)
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #10 - 08/19/12 at 07:44:22
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I could play a blindfold simul against 100 opponents! Ok, I'd resign the first 90 or so within a couple moves, but I could play them!
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #9 - 08/19/12 at 06:26:38
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Bibs wrote on 08/19/12 at 05:49:10:
vallescure wrote on 08/18/12 at 14:34:13:

What is the offer of James Randi ?


http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html


Playing a blindfold simultaneous exhibition against 100 players might suffice for the prize.  Wink

Back to the topic: 6...e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Be3 can lead to a different sort of Exchange line with 8...Re8 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.h3 which requires Black to find some good moves before he can claim equality. After 10.Qxd8 there were a couple of Fischer's games which showed how to play as Black. Obviously you can avoid this with 8...Ng4, a move other than 7...Nc6 or some alternative to 6...e5, but it shows that 7.dxe5 isn't the only Exchange Variation at White's disposal.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #8 - 08/19/12 at 05:49:10
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vallescure wrote on 08/18/12 at 14:34:13:

What is the offer of James Randi ?


http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
  
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vallescure
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #7 - 08/18/12 at 14:34:13
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I just mean that I have some winning games ( analyzed until the mate ) , and they give the points for the norms
And this in 2 correspondance tournaments
But my opponents play "dead man's defence" Grin Angry
What is the offer of James Randi ?
  
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Bibs
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #6 - 08/18/12 at 11:55:13
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Then better to give information about yourself with the question. Nothing is 'of course'. Likely none here are psychic. If they are, James Randi has an offer for you.
Expect 2 IM norms? You mean you 'have' two perhaps? Or just rather confident of having a good couple of tourneys?
Best of luck with ...Na6. Keeps the lumps on.
  
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vallescure
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #5 - 08/18/12 at 10:12:06
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I am 2413 ICCF , and I expect 2 IM norms : of course I have some knowledge of Classical Exchange
But I play for a win , not for a draw after a boring game
So , OK for 6...Na6 !
« Last Edit: 08/18/12 at 11:55:25 by Bibs »  
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kylemeister
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #4 - 08/17/12 at 18:15:40
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One game I think of in this context:  Danailov (yes, that one)-Kasparov, Dortmund 1980.
  
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Re: Classical Exchange : How to avoid it or punish it
Reply #3 - 08/17/12 at 13:54:38
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@OP:  Bibs's advice is spot on.  If you need a model game to study, here is one of my favorites:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1564663
  
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