sloughter wrote on 01/13/13 at 21:39:00:



Game 11---Fried Liver 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7
Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nbc3 Nb4 Two things are evident from this position. The first is that the main line is wildly unsound i.e. 9.a3? I decided to take on Houdini on the Black  side of the Fried Liver to see if I could score my first elusive win. 9.a3? Nxc2ch 10.Kd1 Nxa1 11.Nxd5 Kd7 12.Qf5ch Kd6 (Why anyone would want to play this with White is a mystery. Black has a lot of space to maneuver i.e. there is no mate; the threat to win the Rook at best yields minimal chances to draw. This opening in dismal for White. 
      Houdini dislikes its chances so much that at tournament level it began to move really quickly. Apparently when the program is lost it tries to force time trouble blunders. For the first time playing Houdini I decided to do some quick calculation i.e. actually analyze the position. Play continued 13.Qd3 e4 14.Qg3ch Kc6 15.Qe5 a6 16.Qxe4 Qg5 17.Ne3ch Kb6 18.b4 Ka7 -/+19.Bb2 a5! 20.Ke2 Qh5ch 21.g4 Qg6 22.Qxg6 hxg6 23.Bxa1 axb4 (Note that both Rooks are officially liberated, not a good sign for White. 24.axb4 Kb8 There are many branches here, but the fact remains---Black’s King is perfectly safe, his Rooks are free and White is down the exchange for inadequate compensation. Clearly 9.a3 is a bad idea.

sloughter wrote on 01/13/13 at 20:40:08:




Another variation is 10.d4 Qf6 11.Qe2 Ke7 12.Ne4 Nf4 13.Bxf4 Qxf4 14.dxe5 +/-

The alternative i.e. Na6 is marginally better "only" +/= after:

Second move order 10.d4 Kd6 11.Ne4ch Kc7 12.c3 Na6 13.dxe5 Nc5 14.Ng5 Qe8 15.b4 Ne6 16.Nf7 +/=

Richard Bean wrote on 01/01/13 at 00:30:46:


Both Fritz and Houdini also have a slight edge for Black after 9.Bb3 c6 10.a3 Na6 11.d4?! Qf6! (Not exd4 12.Nxd5 cxd5 13.Bf4 transposing) 12.Bxd5ch cxd5 13.Qxd5ch Ke7 14.dxe5 Qc6 15.Bg5ch Ke8.

White has other plans but none seems to yield any advantage.

It looks like Jon Edwards is right that 9.O-O is the best hope for a plus.

A friend of mine found a key attacking resource we have all missed in the 10...Kd7 line:


5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nbc3 Nb4 9.O-O c6 10.d4 Kd7 11.a3 Nxc3 12.axb4 Nd5 13.Bxd5 cxd5 14.Ra5! (I only looked at 15.Qxd5ch) Kc7 15.Rxd5 Qf6 16.Qg3 Bxb4 17.Bg5 Qc6 18.Rxe5! Bd6 19.Bf4 (Be7! Bd7 20.Bxd6ch Qxd6 21.c4 Kd8 22.Qxg7 Rf8 23.Qxh7 Rc8 24.b3+/=)Bxe5 20.Bxe5ch Kb6 21.Qb3ch Qb5 22.Bc7ch Kc6 23.Qc3ch Kd7 24.Qg3 Qb4 25.Ba5 Qxa5 26.Qxg7ch Kc6 27.Qxh8 +/=

sloughter wrote on 11/05/12 at 22:00:08:


I don't really want to claim that the Fried Liver produces an advantage for White, but I'm not sure that White is any worse.  Personally, without being certain, I can believe that 11.dxe5 is good for the simple reason that it opens lines to Black's king.  The e5 pawn is nothing to sniff at, either.  I didn't look very deeply, but it seemed to me that after 11.dxe5 Kc7 12.a3 Nxc2 13.Nxd5 cxd5 14.Bxd5 Nxa8 15.Bf4, White may have enough to draw.  Nor would I particularly wish to be Black except in CC. Has anybody ever examined this line?

Markovich wrote on 11/05/12 at 19:24:57:


I can't believe that the pawn capture, is good because it gives Black time to consolidate, hence I think the given line is better. If we extend the analysis a few moves, both Fritz and Houdini think that Black is doing fine;

5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7ch Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nc3 Nb4 9.O-O c6 10.d4 Kd7 11.dxe5?! Kc7 12.Rd1 Be6 13.Ne4 Qh4 14.Be2 Be7 15.g3 Qh3 16.c4 Rhf8 & Black is okay.

Well, it's not news that White may not be better in the Fried Liv

er. Critical is 6.d4, and for the time being, I will retain my scepticism toward Heisman's claim that 6...Nxd4 is adequate for Black.

Sloughter, for those of us who don't save our old copies of Chess Life, would you please summarize Heisman's argument?

But as to the Fried Liver, what is Black supposed to do after 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+ Ke6 8.Nc3 Nb4 9.0-0 Kxd7 10.dxe5, which seems to me to be White's likeliest move?

In the 9.Qe4 line, after 9...c6 10.a3 Na6 11.d4 Nac7, an alternative for White is 12.f4, e.g. 12...Kf7 13.fxe5 Be6 14.0-0+ Kg8, and Fritz 10's openings book gives 15.Qf3 Qh4 16.Ne4 Be7.  The position looks approximately equal to me with White's two pawns and strong centre offering enough compensation for the piece.

After 12.Bf4 Kf7 13.Bxe5 Be6, I recommend 14.Qf3+ (if 14.0-0, then I recall that Master_Om's suggestion 14...Nf6 was slightly better for Black, and Sloughter's 14...Bd6 may also be similarly good) 14...Kg8 15.Ne4 with another messy and roughly equal position.

However I don't regard 9.Qe4 to be as promising as 9.0-0 and 9.Bb3.

In my analysis file on the Fried Liver I gave the following:
(9.0-0 c6 10.d4) Kd7 "may be slightly less dicey (than 10...Kd6), but after 11.a3 (White should not go in for 11.Bxd5 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 cxd5 13.Qxd5+ Kc7 14.Qxe5+ Bd6, as although White gets a third pawn for the piece, it is clear that Black is over the worst) and now 11…Nxc2 12.Qf5+ Kc7 13.Qxc2 or 11…exd4 12.axb4 dxc3 13.Bxd5."  

In the line 11.a3, I obviously missed 11...Nxc3, but following one of Sloughter's lines: 12.axb4 Nd5 13.Bxd5 cxd5 14.Qxd5+ Kc7 15.Qxe5+ Bd6 (15...Qd6 is met by 16.Qe8) 16.Qxg7+ Bd7 17.d5 b6 18.g3:

I slightly prefer White here due to having four pawns for the piece, although White has to be careful of Black's attacking chances on the kingside.

I agree that 13.dxe5 Kc7 14.b5 is quite messy and roughly equal, e.g. 14...Be6 15.bxc6 bxc6 16.Rd1.

In over-the-board play, though, I would rather be White.

I agree that the generally-neglected 9.Bb3 is also promising for White.  A couple of years ago I regarded 6.Nxf7 as inferior to Lolli's 6.d4, but today I'm not so sure.

Jon Edwards in his article the “Re-Fried Liver” July 2009, Chess Life, p.32-34, covered most of the reasonable earlier alternatives in his main line. I analyzed this variation with Houdini 2 and Fritz 12; Jon recommended following the advice of World Champion Estrin.

Here is the critical variation not analyzed by Jon: 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nc3 Nb4 9.O-O c6 10.d4 Kd7!

Jon gives A)10…Bd6 (Estrin’s main line), B10…Nxc2, C)10…exd4 D)10…Qf6 E)10…b5 &  F)10…Be7, but not 10…Kd7.

After 10…Kd7 White wins a lot of pawns but gives up the initiative:

11.Bxd5?! Bxd5 12.Nxd5 cxd5 13.Qxd5ch Kc7 14.Qxe5ch Bd6! 15.Qxg7ch Bd7 16.d5 b6! 17.a4?! (g3 Qf8 = to =/+) Qh4 18.g3 Rhg8 = to =/+ but White can probably draw by just exchanging all the pawns and going into a theoretical draw of Rook + Bishop versus Rook ending. There is also a danger that Black may wind up with a passed Queen Rook pawn but the wrong Bishop to control the Queening square.

White must improve so one possibility is to meet 10…Kd7 with 11.a3 (Now Nxc2 doesn’t work because of Qf5ch) Nxc3 12.axb4 (To open the a-file) Nd5 13.dxe5 (13.Bxd5 cxd5 14.Qxd5ch Kc7 15.Qxe5ch Bd6 16.Qxg7ch Bd7 17.d5 b6 18.g3 =) Kc7 14.b5 = (But it’s complicated)

Estrin’s idea, 10…Kd6 gives White better prospects than 10…Kd7 e.g. 10…Kd6?! 11.Bg5!? (Jon gives this as an alternative to his preferred choice 11.Ne4ch; probably both concepts give White a plus) Be7 12.Bxe7ch Qxe7 13.Rfe1 Kc7 14.Rxe5 Qf6 15.Bxd5 Nxd5 16.Nxd5 cxd5 17.Qg3 Kd8 18.Rxd5ch White has three pawns for the piece and the initiative. 

Jon’s idea is probably better: 10…Bd6 11.Ne4ch! Kc7 12.c3 Na6 13.Bxa6 bxa6 14.dxe5 Qh4 15.c4 Bg4 16.Qd3 Nb4 17.Qb3 Be2?! (Jon suggests 17…Be6 18.Nd6 a5 19.a3 Qd4 20.Re1 “with a large and probably winning advantage”---Edwards) 18.Nd6! +/= 

An obscure variation should be the main line in my opinion: 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nc3 Nb4 9.Bb3!

This is one of three candidate moves that gain time; 9.a3 does not. If 9.d4?! Nxc2ch 10.Kd1 Nxd4 =; 9.O-O was examined above:

9…c6 (9…Bc5?! 10.O-O Rf8 11.Qg3 +/-) 10.a3 Na6 11.Nxd5 cxd5 12.d4 Be7 (exd4? 13.Bf4 Qa5ch 14.c3 Qb5 15.Qe4ch Kd7 16.Bxd5 +/-) 13.O-O Rf8 14.Qg3! (Qe4 Qd6 15.Qxh7 Kf7 =/unclear) Kf7 (exd4?! 15.Re1ch Kf7 16.Qe5 Nc7 17.Bf4 Ne6 18.Bxd5 Qb6 19.Re4 Kg8 20.Rae1 Rf7 21.Bxe6 Qxe6 22.Rxe6 Bxa3 23.Re8ch Rxe8 24.Rxe8ch Rf8 25.Rxf8ch Bxf8 26.Be5 Bc5 27.Kf1 +/-) 15.Qxe5 Kg8 16.Bxd5ch Kh8 17.Be4 Qe8 (To stop Qh5) 18.Qg3 Bf6 19.Qd3 Nc7 20.c3 +/= 

White has three pawns for the piece, will centralize his majors and push his Queenside pawns.