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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie (Read 37044 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #19 - 12/16/13 at 12:20:31
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If you play Bc4 yugoslav vs regular Dragon, enter the anti yugoslav lines would be praticall or else you have to learn two lines vs regular Dragon since there are players that play accelerated to avoid 9 0-0-0 but like to play vs 9 Bc4.




  
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MartinC
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #18 - 12/16/13 at 09:36:35
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Depends. In general I'd say that anything you know relatively well and gives you a chance to play for two results is more than good enough for normal usage.

Facing that sort of thing is hardly going to excite black players Smiley If there are then specific weaker players who are comfortably drawing against you in it then looking up something different would make sense.

Of course you might want to play something different for the interest. The early Nb3 lines should be in quite good standing I guess as in several fairly recent books.
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #17 - 12/15/13 at 08:51:35
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I'm going to revive this thread here, now a year later, rather than starting a new discussion.

I'm currently getting back to the White side and looking for the updated opinions on the lines discussed here. I used to play the Maroczy with great success a decade ago as a class B playing 9.Be3. Currently to my eye, the Gurgenidze looks like a pretty simple equalizing/drawing line for Black (and indeed, has been very easy for me playing some practice positions from the Black side). Primary opposition 1900-2300.

Should I just suck it up, create maximum complications in the Gurgenidze and congratulate my opponent for the effort if they're up to steadily holding the drawn ending?

I share bragesjo and BPaulsen's views on the 7.Nc2 setups.

Would entering the main lines of the Anti-Yugoslav with Nb3 be a better practical choice? Are the ...a5 lines a theoretical issue?

  
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bragesjo
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #16 - 12/22/12 at 10:58:24
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Now have I acess to a board but I dont have access to my books so I can not double check but this was the closest thing I came to recreate the Nc2 from my memory, and thats hard since I dont play it wth either side!

  
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bragesjo
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #15 - 12/21/12 at 14:02:39
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I can only add that for those who has never heard of Dzinzi he is well known to make analytical mistakes and overoptemistic evaluations on his promoted ideas, I have found several such things in the book I mentioned. So I one uses any Dzindzi analyse, be shure to double check them yourself!
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #14 - 12/21/12 at 12:58:48
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chk wrote on 12/21/12 at 09:39:28:
From what I have seen mainly from Greet's book, both Be3 and Bg5 give a slight edge to White (maybe very slight as the situation is more or less as described by BPaulsen above). But the resulting endings may require some patient defence, hence my previous quote: "you will need good endgame skills to face the main line".

Well, this is mostly the case with many other setups for Black vs. the Bind (except maybe the ...f5-break tries). The main reason I suggested the Gurge as a starting point is mainly because it is easy to set up and remember.


I agree, and this is what I meant before too. Anyway, I don't know who really is better or worse in the Nc2-systems, I always thought White had a small edge if he avoids all the tactics (not that easy), but it is still solid for Black. I don't think any side is at +=/=+ anyway, maybe equal then!

I also think that endgame skills are more a necessity for the Accelerated Dragon compared to the proper Dragon variation (maybe just memory for those...).

The key to the Maroczy bind is experience and patience. Both sides have to time counterplay etc. Much more important than the theoretical verdict at club level, IMO.
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #13 - 12/21/12 at 09:39:28
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From what I have seen mainly from Greet's book, both Be3 and Bg5 give a slight edge to White (maybe very slight as the situation is more or less as described by BPaulsen above). But the resulting endings may require some patient defence, hence my previous quote: "you will need good endgame skills to face the main line".

Well, this is mostly the case with many other setups for Black vs. the Bind (except maybe the ...f5-break tries). The main reason I suggested the Gurge as a starting point is mainly because it is easy to set up and remember.
  

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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #12 - 12/21/12 at 04:51:59
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The main line in Experts Versus the Sicilian was equal as far as I could tell. I don't think the claim of a white edge reasonable, nor should white lose with accurate play (in some ways black is a tad easier to play). That was my findings after spending a lot of time on it.

As an aside, the main line Gurgenidze with Be3 (instead of Bg5) isn't fully equal for black as far as I know. Given many white players aren't all that good at milking small edges of the spatial variety against solid but passive positions, you can expect to draw frequently against all but the most prepared GMs with good technical skills fairly easily.
  

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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #11 - 12/20/12 at 21:01:03
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Well, Chess Openings for Black Explained had some nice points, but it is Dzindzi work you know. I can't really believe it is better for Black either, more like a small edge for White.
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #10 - 12/20/12 at 20:56:10
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Over the years I've seen that Maroczy line with Nc2 and ...Nf6 regarded as +=, = or unclear -- a claim that it should be =+ is surprising indeed.
Incidentally a couple of old games it reminds me of are Portisch-Tukmakov and Keene-Tal -- though Keene in effect played the black side of the reversed-color version from the English.
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #9 - 12/20/12 at 20:25:41
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About 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.c4 Nf6  6.Nc3 d6 and allows 7.Nc2 I actually dont think that white has anything special in this line. Experts vs the Sicilian recommended Nc2 and called the most critical line, (a side note on a exchange sac that can not be accepted)  an edge for white while for example Chess Openings for black Explained called the position the opposete (an edge for black). I am not shure who is better since computers are very closed to 0.00 but every decent engine I tried has had extremly small negative numbers.

I dont have ny board at the moment so I can not give the exact variation, it is only from memory and I dont play accelerated Dragon as black since it is  very hard to win against a good players vs the Bind.

About Bc4 Yugoslav like and Qa5 line, it is true that it forces 0-0 but the drawbacks are than white can play a later Nb3 that tranpsoses to Dragon 0-0 line with the difference that whites attack is stronger since black will either be a tempo down on a normal line or place the Queen at c7 that rules out any Rxc3 exchange sacs line. I won a team match lasting seasons as white in this line when black became desperation when my attack got started quickly.
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #8 - 12/20/12 at 14:49:07
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chk wrote on 12/20/12 at 13:08:47:
I agree and I would suggest that you first have a glance at the Gurgenidze set-up vs. the Maroczy. imo it is the easiest setup to learn and remember and not particularly easy for the White player to prove anything.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.c4 Nf6  6.Nc3 Nxd4 (d6 allows 7.Nc2) 7.Qxd4 Bg7 8.Bg5 O-O 9.Qd2 preparing Nd5 doesn't looks so easy to me for Black.
  

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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #7 - 12/20/12 at 13:08:47
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I agree and I would suggest that you first have a glance at the Gurgenidze set-up vs. the Maroczy. imo it is the easiest setup to learn and remember and not particularly easy for the White player to prove anything. But you will need good endgame skills to face the main line (though some interesting alternatives for Black do exist e.g. for the connoisseurs: ...Qxa2 vs. 7. f3).
  

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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #6 - 12/19/12 at 21:22:18
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That depends on how hard you mean by hard Smiley At an awful lot of levels it's entirely fine. It takes really quite a good player to be able to 'sit' on a Marozcy bind style position.

Greet's starting out book is much more than enough to well above that level. It's lot more thorough/thicker than their standard starting out book. Plenty of good explanations of the plans too though.

It's basically just an excellent book Smiley It also includes a lot of different plans vs the Marozcy, some of which are plentifully unbalanced.
  
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Re: Accelerated Dragon questions from a newbie
Reply #5 - 12/19/12 at 19:40:39
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Well, it seems that the Acc. Dragon is more a draw weapon against hard oposition than nothing else, isn't it?

But I'm going to try here and there and we'll see if it suits me (especially against Exchange French entusiats  xDD)...

thx !
  
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