Latest Updates:
Normal Topic the slav as black - some questions (Read 11142 times)
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2534
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #8 - 01/07/13 at 20:19:53
Post Tools
I'd get Vigus' and Lakdawala's books since they are both good and there is little overlap between them.  You can pick lines from both that are comfortable for you and do further research as needed.

If you can only get one, I'd recommend Lakdawala's book as it's a better introduction but doesn't exactly skimp on the theory, either (for the target audience, of course).

CanadianClub wrote on 01/04/13 at 21:38:56:
Well, I've decided to play The Slav as Black. I'll start with Main Line lines (instead of Chebanenko ones).

Which book do you would consider:

- Vigus' "Play the Slav" ?
- Lakdawala, "The Slav Move by Move" ?
- other?

As a total newbie in the Slav universe, it would be important for me some textual explanations in the book, not only encyclopedia-like contents.


thx !


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jitb
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 120
Joined: 06/17/09
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #7 - 01/07/13 at 18:56:18
Post Tools
CanadianClub wrote on 01/04/13 at 21:38:56:
Well, I've decided to play The Slav as Black. I'll start with Main Line lines (instead of Chebanenko ones).

Which book do you would consider:

- Vigus' "Play the Slav" ?
- Lakdawala, "The Slav Move by Move" ?
- other?

As a total newbie in the Slav universe, it would be important for me some textual explanations in the book, not only encyclopedia-like contents.


thx !



Although I haven't read other slav books, the Vigus book made it really easy for me to start playing this opening. I found the explanations very useful.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scarblac
Full Member
***
Offline


Chess Addict

Posts: 190
Location: Netherlands
Joined: 09/17/07
Gender: Male
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #6 - 01/04/13 at 22:34:58
Post Tools
CanadianClub wrote on 01/04/13 at 21:38:56:
Which book do you would consider:

Sadler's "The Slav". He did three 1.d4 d5 opening books in the 90s, on the QGD, the Slav and the Semi-Slav, and they're all wonderful.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CanadianClub
Senior Member
****
Offline


Greetings from Catalonia!

Posts: 416
Joined: 11/11/12
Gender: Male
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #5 - 01/04/13 at 21:38:56
Post Tools
Well, I've decided to play The Slav as Black. I'll start with Main Line lines (instead of Chebanenko ones).

Which book do you would consider:

- Vigus' "Play the Slav" ?
- Lakdawala, "The Slav Move by Move" ?
- other?

As a total newbie in the Slav universe, it would be important for me some textual explanations in the book, not only encyclopedia-like contents.


thx !

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CanadianClub
Senior Member
****
Offline


Greetings from Catalonia!

Posts: 416
Joined: 11/11/12
Gender: Male
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #4 - 01/02/13 at 17:13:11
Post Tools
My experience against d4 is purely Stonewalls and Nimzo-Dutchs (Classical dutch with Bb4). And as a 1.d4 player myself as White, I have faced very few Slavs or Grünfelds. A lot of QGD and a lot of KID (easy to get confortable positions against both of them, and the main reason no to get as Black). So I don't have any experience neither with nor against Slavs / Grünfelds.


@ErictheRed

I agree Grünfeld is much more tactical and piece-play oriented. And it's because Slav suits me better (positional, sound and solid). I agree with you in terms of thinking some people playing KID (not much Grünfelds here in Catalonia in general, rarely seen) without undertanding it a little would be better playing easier openings (like QGD or QGA).

@fling

Even if Chebanenko maybe is more pawn-play oriented I don't see majore diferences with Main Line Slavs, but it's a question of investigate it a little more... Smiley

@TN

I like the approach you give in questions of move-order of try to get one or another options (Chebanenko or Main Line Slav). And you are the second one to recommends me a Rowson's book on Grünfeld (a very good player I played with two months ago told me that is a "must buy book to understand not only Grünfelds", he said).

- - - -

Thx to all of you !
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #3 - 01/01/13 at 21:49:08
Post Tools
CanadianClub wrote on 01/01/13 at 19:05:29:
Hi, first of all... Happy New Year for everybody !

I've been spamming in some subforums here because I am searching for a main defence against d4. I first looked at Nimzo + Bogo duo, but I like a lot Nimzo positions (their flexibility very rich in ideas) and I dislike Bogo. And asking here and there I amb worried that I am going to get Nimzo Def only about 30% of 1.d4 games I play as Black.

My other two possible options are Grünfeld or Slav. I think other choices (Benoni, Benko) are less sound than Grünfeld or Slav (Dzindzi even discourage to start playing Benoni in a youtube video I saw yesterday  Shocked). I would achieve main lines more often than Nimzo main lines when facing 1.d4... (even if Tromposky, Colle, etc... are always there)

Grünfeld Def is riskier and difficult to play than Slav, I think. Is it correct for a 1966 ELO player as me (the amount of theory is not a problem) ?

And related to Slav (my first option right now):

- What are the differences between Chebanenko positions and 4...dxc4 options? Having no idea about neither of them, what would be your preference and why? (in terms of riskiness, solidity, easy to win against lower rated foes, difficult to play, etc...)

- What book did you consider to rely on to get into Slav complex (old Sadler one, Vigus, Lakdawala, Flear on a6 Slav, Bologan on Chebanenko......) ?


thx in advance,


I think Bonsai's post on the Chebanenko in this thread explains the basic ideas as well or better than I could: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1349724755/0. As for 4...dxc4, the idea is that Black is surrendering the centre in order to develop his pieces actively (as the immediate 4...Bf5 allows 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Qb3) and break in the centre with ...e5. But to win the c4-pawn White has to play 5.a4, to prevent ...b5, and then after 5...Bf5 White will spend some time winning the c4-pawn, time Black can use to get his pieces developed to good squares. It's worth mentioning that to play 5...e6, you need to be happy with both IQP positions (6.e3) and very sharp gambit play (6.e4). I think both the Chebanenko and Main Line Slav have a healthy combination of solidity and dynamism and aren't difficult to play if you understand them, but to win against lower rated players you'll have to play good chess, regardless of the opening! 

I mainly used Vigus's book and also recently purchased Lakdawala's book. If you want to learn the Chebanenko I'd recommend using Bologan as your main guide, though Kritz's DVD might be sufficient up to the 2000 level (I'm only guessing as I haven't watched the DVD). 

Of course you can combine the 4...dxc4 and 4...a6 Slav systems by playing 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 but meeting some of White's alternatives (3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 and 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 for instance) with 4...a6, whereby you avoid for instance the 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 5.c5 and 5.a4 e6 6.g3/Bf4 variations. It should be mentioned that if you intend to meet 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 5.e3 with 5...e6, there are a few lines where White can play for a win with very little risk of losing the game (at least at GM level). 

Since you mentioned that you are considering the Grunfeld Defence, you might like the 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Qc2 g6 and 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cd5 cd5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Bf4 Ne4 variations which have definite Grunfeld tendencies. If I recall right, Ametanoitos had a thread with some analysis on the latter variation. As for the Grunfeld itself, you have to read Rowson's book - even if you don't play the opening it will improve your 'understanding' rating by 100 points.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #2 - 01/01/13 at 20:50:52
Post Tools
The "Main-line" Slav is about the light-squared bishop, mainly by learning how to time the ...c5 and ...e5 breaks, which is also a big theme in the QGD and Chebanenko. You might also have to give up your light-squared bishop for a white knight (because you've moved it to f5 and sealed of its retreat with ...e6), and learn how to fight the bishop pair. And White often tries to blow you off the board by setting up a d4-e4-pawn duo and then advancing them.

As remarked in the old book Winning with the Slav, you need good technique for the Slav. In order to win you might have to use that weakened b4-square properly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2534
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: the slav as black - some questions
Reply #1 - 01/01/13 at 20:24:36
Post Tools
Personally, I think that Lakdawala's book is quite a good introduction to the Slav, but it's not entirely comprehensive or perfect.  Still, up to at least 2000 or even 2200 it will probably be all you need to start playing those lines comfortably.  Supplement with some work of your own from a database, and I think it's a great book.

I can't say much about the Chebanenko Slav, unfortunately, except that it's quite solid and as White I have a harder time making headway against it.  In general, the 4...dxc4 lines are a little more about active piece-play (putting pressure on White's center with pieces) and the 4...a6 lines are more about active pawn-play (breaking with ...c5 or ...e5 or expanding with ...b5).  Of course these are generalities.

The Slav is incredibly different than the Grunfeld; it shouldn't be hard for you to choose between the two.  Do you like pawn centers?  If so, then don't play the Grunfeld!  It's the single defense against 1.d4 that is most piece-play oriented and has the least pawn presence in the center.  Of course there are various lines, but in general this is true.

It's also much easier to get blown off the board by making a single mistake in the Grunfeld (some of those sharp 7.Bc4 lines, for instance).  The Slav is a little more forgiving of mistakes; you're liable to end up with a bad Bishop or less space, but single mistakes aren't as catastrophic (the Slav is generally less sharp).   

In my opinion, playing the Slav is a bit easier than the Grunfeld, in that the correct move is more often the simple, classical, develop-a-piece-to-an-active-square move.  The Grunfeld takes more finesse and more non-standard interpretations of positions.  Not everyone is up to the task; we all like to think of ourselves as mini Tals or Kasparovs, but I think that for most club players who play the Grunfeld or King's Indian, for instance, they'd have better results by simply playing the QGD, Slav, Tarrasch, etc.   

Hope that helps!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CanadianClub
Senior Member
****
Offline


Greetings from Catalonia!

Posts: 416
Joined: 11/11/12
Gender: Male
the slav as black - some questions
01/01/13 at 19:05:29
Post Tools
Hi, first of all... Happy New Year for everybody !

I've been spamming in some subforums here because I am searching for a main defence against d4. I first looked at Nimzo + Bogo duo, but I like a lot Nimzo positions (their flexibility very rich in ideas) and I dislike Bogo. And asking here and there I amb worried that I am going to get Nimzo Def only about 30% of 1.d4 games I play as Black.

My other two possible options are Grünfeld or Slav. I think other choices (Benoni, Benko) are less sound than Grünfeld or Slav (Dzindzi even discourage to start playing Benoni in a youtube video I saw yesterday  Shocked). I would achieve main lines more often than Nimzo main lines when facing 1.d4... (even if Tromposky, Colle, etc... are always there)

Grünfeld Def is riskier and difficult to play than Slav, I think. Is it correct for a 1966 ELO player as me (the amount of theory is not a problem) ?

And related to Slav (my first option right now):

- What are the differences between Chebanenko positions and 4...dxc4 options? Having no idea about neither of them, what would be your preference and why? (in terms of riskiness, solidity, easy to win against lower rated foes, difficult to play, etc...)

- What book did you consider to rely on to get into Slav complex (old Sadler one, Vigus, Lakdawala, Flear on a6 Slav, Bologan on Chebanenko......) ?


thx in advance,
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo