Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 34
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy (Read 349673 times)
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #492 - 12/15/13 at 07:50:05
Post Tools
Because there's no legal force behind it - that was an ad hoc measure from the tournament organiser ergo no power beyond the tournament itself.

Had it come from the country wide set up then it might have attracted a country wide ban etc. Best if FIDE get that promised anti cheating set up running.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GeneM
Senior Member
****
Offline


Tournament winner gets
two fun filled knights!

Posts: 303
Location: near Seattle WA USA
Joined: 01/12/08
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #491 - 12/14/13 at 22:53:01
Post Tools
.
Hadron wrote on 12/14/13 at 21:59:00:
Considering many chess professionals and amateurs a like believe Ivanov is cheating in tournaments, just why are Ivanov's tournament entrees being accepted? I don't know but are tournament organizers forced to accept tournament entrees under any FIDE rules?
...
for argument sake, a playing condition is that a pat-down can be requested by one or both players and it must be applied to both players equally (which I think they do now) but if its refused by one or both players then that player is expelled from the tournament if a good reason is not supplied that the pat down should've not proceeded (which again I think they do). If it gets that far then it should be a tournament ban for the length of the history of that tournament...

Ivanov refused to take off his shoes when M.Dlugy took off his own shoes. That moment of refusal is when Ivanov should be banned from all chess for at least three years, by FIDE.


In the USA, suppose you are driving a car in an weaving or dubious manner. The police pull you over to the curb to investigate whether you are driving drunk. The police ask you to take a breath test to detect any alcohol; but you refuse.
Now,
at that moment you are legally presumed to be drunk, with all the same consequences as if you had taken the breath test and been proven drunk.

.
  

GeneM , CastleLong.com , FRC-chess960
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #490 - 12/14/13 at 21:59:00
Post Tools
Bibs wrote on 12/14/13 at 13:23:29:
Hadron wrote on 12/14/13 at 07:07:38:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 12/14/13 at 06:31:19:
Here's one tournament that appears ready for the next wave, the Millionaires Chess Open, scheduled for October 2014:

"No Electronic Devices of Any Kind" [This was all caps, but this site doesn't allow me to post without "correcting" it]

No player may use or wear any type of electronic or digital device, phone, blackberry, PDA, computer, ear-piece, headset, communications device, microphone, speaker or the like while playing without the expressed permission of a TD (doctors on call included). The penalty for such use is forfeiture of the round, and an immediate investigation into the nature of the use will be done to determine if dismissal from the tournament is warranted.
If a player’s cell phone goes off during the round, that player will lose ten minutes off his/her clock.  If it occurs again, the game will be forfeited.

Spectator Rules [all caps]

Spectators will be allowed only in a specially cordoned off area running down the middle of the tournament room. No spectators will be allowed inside the area where players are competing.
Spectators are not allowed to speak to players, or vice versa, while games are in progress.
There will be clear signs warning spectators to turn off their cell phone ringers. Any spectator whose phone goes off in the playing hall will be obliged to leave immediately.
Spectators are not allowed to bring beverages into the playing area.
Spectators are not allowed in the “player’s only” bathroom.
The tournament staff retains the right to expel from the tournament room any spectator who does not comply with the rules or is disturbing the tournament in any way."

They also prohibit "boorish behavior"! 

Emphases added.
Source: http://millionairechess.com/tournament/tournament-policies/


Really?...HAW HAW HAW HAW...given what you have reiterated above, don't you think a new level of absurdity has been reached? Whether or not Invanov is actually cheat is a moot point but really what can't be argued is the level of paranoid fueled idiocy that has swept into chess thanks to the level of inaction surrounding Ivanov...and now spectators are in the cross hairs?? Good lord....


We see your point. 
But is it really necessary to write with a sneer? So consistently? 
Possible to be a bit more ... warm-spirited...perhaps...?

Festive regards,
B


"Newark gambit" replies #51 & post #65, "Theoretical refutation of 6...Qc7 7.Qg4?!" reply # 15 and  "Does anyone still play the poor old Grob" Reply #10....Glasshouses and stones, Bibs.

Getting back to chess. I have some questions. Considering many chess professionals and amateurs a like beleive Ivanov is cheating in tournaments, just why are Ivanov's tournament entrees being accepted? I don't know but are tournament organizers forced to accept tournament entrees under any FIDE rules? Doesn't continuing to accept Ivanov's entrees into tournaments knowning that he is beleived to be a sophisticated cheat perpetuating the issue?....This is perhaps the thing I find most hard to get my head around. You have a guy in your tournament that is strongly beleived to be cheating so why let him in the first place? Just why are the tournament organizers and directors not doing more to put the ownus on Ivanov to prove he is not cheating...for aguement sake, a playing condition is that a pat-down can be requested by one or both players and it must be applied to both players equally (which I think they do now) but if its refused by one or both players then that player is expelled from the tournament if a good reason is not supplied that the pat down should've not proceeded (which again I think they do). If it gets that far then it should be a tournment ban for the length of the history of that tournament....and not, as it has happened, let Ivanov continue to play.....All I am saying is that unless something is done to force the situation then the whole thing is just going to get sillier and sillier....
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 868
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #489 - 12/14/13 at 17:47:56
Post Tools
GMTonyKosten wrote on 12/14/13 at 16:24:15:
[quote author=665077340 link=1357693457/482#482 date=1387021038]
Surely they're not serious? You're short of time and quickly repeat a few times to get to the time control ... and you lose by default!! Shocked


They suggest that Norms will be available in the Open. Not that FIDE would take action, but they are tacking sufficient liberties with the Laws of Chess, such as allowing the TD to default for certain openings, as to debar it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ReneDescartes
God Member
*****
Offline


Qu'est-ce donc que je
suis? Une chose qui pense.

Posts: 1240
Joined: 05/17/10
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #488 - 12/14/13 at 16:45:44
Post Tools
Two rounds per day, up to ten hours' play for three and a half days straight, and if you attempt to play a low-tension variation in a game occurring one hour after an exhausting struggle you are forfeited based on some TD's judgment that the game produced was insufficiently exciting or lengthly. 

Furthermore, you have to calculate to avoid variations that could lead to forced repetitions--and a player with no hope for a prize even gets a kind of repetition odds as a result.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3180
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #487 - 12/14/13 at 16:24:15
Post Tools
RdC wrote on 12/14/13 at 11:37:18:


Continuous repetitions in order to get to the time control will be considered an infraction of the rules.


Surely they're not serious? You're short of time and quickly repeat a few times to get to the time control ... and you lose by default!! Shocked
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #486 - 12/14/13 at 15:55:55
Post Tools
No, it can't be that - "doctors on call included".

Suspect they just didn't read it very carefully Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #485 - 12/14/13 at 15:19:57
Post Tools
I saw that too, Taljechin. I wonder if they were talking about doctors who had special permission to have a pager. But I don't know.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #484 - 12/14/13 at 13:30:51
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 12/14/13 at 06:31:19:
Here's one tournament that appears ready for the next wave, the Millionaires Chess Open, scheduled for October 2014:

"No Electronic Devices of Any Kind" [This was all caps, but this site doesn't allow me to post without "correcting" it]

No player may use or wear any type of electronic or digital device, phone, blackberry, PDA, computer, ear-piece, headset, communications device, microphone, speaker or the like while playing without the expressed permission of a TD (doctors on call included). The penalty for such use is forfeiture of the round, and an immediate investigation into the nature of the use will be done to determine if dismissal from the tournament is warranted.
If a player’s cell phone goes off during the round, that player will lose ten minutes off his/her clock.  If it occurs again, the game will be forfeited.


Hmm, if the phone you're not allowed to bring rings, you only lose ten minutes...?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2342
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #483 - 12/14/13 at 13:23:29
Post Tools
Hadron wrote on 12/14/13 at 07:07:38:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 12/14/13 at 06:31:19:
Here's one tournament that appears ready for the next wave, the Millionaires Chess Open, scheduled for October 2014:

"No Electronic Devices of Any Kind" [This was all caps, but this site doesn't allow me to post without "correcting" it]

No player may use or wear any type of electronic or digital device, phone, blackberry, PDA, computer, ear-piece, headset, communications device, microphone, speaker or the like while playing without the expressed permission of a TD (doctors on call included). The penalty for such use is forfeiture of the round, and an immediate investigation into the nature of the use will be done to determine if dismissal from the tournament is warranted.
If a player’s cell phone goes off during the round, that player will lose ten minutes off his/her clock.  If it occurs again, the game will be forfeited.

Spectator Rules [all caps]

Spectators will be allowed only in a specially cordoned off area running down the middle of the tournament room. No spectators will be allowed inside the area where players are competing.
Spectators are not allowed to speak to players, or vice versa, while games are in progress.
There will be clear signs warning spectators to turn off their cell phone ringers. Any spectator whose phone goes off in the playing hall will be obliged to leave immediately.
Spectators are not allowed to bring beverages into the playing area.
Spectators are not allowed in the “player’s only” bathroom.
The tournament staff retains the right to expel from the tournament room any spectator who does not comply with the rules or is disturbing the tournament in any way."

They also prohibit "boorish behavior"! 

Emphases added.
Source: http://millionairechess.com/tournament/tournament-policies/


Really?...HAW HAW HAW HAW...given what you have reiterated above, don't you think a new level of absurdity has been reached? Whether or not Invanov is actually cheat is a moot point but really what can't be argued is the level of paranoid fueled idiocy that has swept into chess thanks to the level of inaction surrounding Ivanov...and now spectators are in the cross hairs?? Good lord....


We see your point. 
But is it really necessary to write with a sneer? So consistently? 
Possible to be a bit more ... warm-spirited...perhaps...?

Festive regards,
B

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 868
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #482 - 12/14/13 at 11:37:18
Post Tools
Did you notice the entry fees?  One thousand dollars rising to two thousand for late entry. They don't say, but given that it's in America, I expect the players are still expected to supply the equipment even at those prices.

Not a tournament for fans of the Exchange French or even players who grind in drawish openings.

The TD can deem that players are not making a serious effort to play a real game. For example, some unacceptable situations would be:

    If two players on the top boards make a quick draw using some well known theoretical opening that forces a three-fold repetition.
    If the two players play an intentionally lifeless opening with the object of steering the game towards a dead draw as soon as possible. For example, playing the exchange French defense and immediately trading off all the pieces is not acceptable.
    Continuous repetitions in order to get to the time control will be considered an infraction of the rules.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #481 - 12/14/13 at 07:38:25
Post Tools
Yes, this seems an over reaction. Not the spectator rules would actually help.

As for using a chest/back mounted device to transmit moves - its quite possible using some sort of morse code/electronic shocks. Not trivial and you'd need someone to send you the moves.

Feet was easier to believe. I'm still very slightly cautious about all of this too, because of the precedents with bridge cheating which show people to be extremely good at noticing things that aren't really there once convinced there is something.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #480 - 12/14/13 at 07:07:38
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 12/14/13 at 06:31:19:
Here's one tournament that appears ready for the next wave, the Millionaires Chess Open, scheduled for October 2014:

"No Electronic Devices of Any Kind" [This was all caps, but this site doesn't allow me to post without "correcting" it]

No player may use or wear any type of electronic or digital device, phone, blackberry, PDA, computer, ear-piece, headset, communications device, microphone, speaker or the like while playing without the expressed permission of a TD (doctors on call included). The penalty for such use is forfeiture of the round, and an immediate investigation into the nature of the use will be done to determine if dismissal from the tournament is warranted.
If a player’s cell phone goes off during the round, that player will lose ten minutes off his/her clock.  If it occurs again, the game will be forfeited.

Spectator Rules [all caps]

Spectators will be allowed only in a specially cordoned off area running down the middle of the tournament room. No spectators will be allowed inside the area where players are competing.
Spectators are not allowed to speak to players, or vice versa, while games are in progress.
There will be clear signs warning spectators to turn off their cell phone ringers. Any spectator whose phone goes off in the playing hall will be obliged to leave immediately.
Spectators are not allowed to bring beverages into the playing area.
Spectators are not allowed in the “player’s only” bathroom.
The tournament staff retains the right to expel from the tournament room any spectator who does not comply with the rules or is disturbing the tournament in any way."

They also prohibit "boorish behavior"! 

Emphases added.
Source: http://millionairechess.com/tournament/tournament-policies/


Really?...HAW HAW HAW HAW...given what you have reiterated above, don't you think a new level of absurdity has been reached? Whether or not Invanov is actually cheat is a moot point but really what can't be argued is the level of paranoid fueled idiocy that has swept into chess thanks to the level of inaction surrounding Ivanov...and now spectators are in the cross hairs?? Good lord....
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #479 - 12/14/13 at 06:31:19
Post Tools
Here's one tournament that appears ready for the next wave, the Millionaires Chess Open, scheduled for October 2014:

"No Electronic Devices of Any Kind" [This was all caps, but this site doesn't allow me to post without "correcting" it]

No player may use or wear any type of electronic or digital device, phone, blackberry, PDA, computer, ear-piece, headset, communications device, microphone, speaker or the like while playing without the expressed permission of a TD (doctors on call included). The penalty for such use is forfeiture of the round, and an immediate investigation into the nature of the use will be done to determine if dismissal from the tournament is warranted.
If a player’s cell phone goes off during the round, that player will lose ten minutes off his/her clock.  If it occurs again, the game will be forfeited.

Spectator Rules [all caps]

Spectators will be allowed only in a specially cordoned off area running down the middle of the tournament room. No spectators will be allowed inside the area where players are competing.
Spectators are not allowed to speak to players, or vice versa, while games are in progress.
There will be clear signs warning spectators to turn off their cell phone ringers. Any spectator whose phone goes off in the playing hall will be obliged to leave immediately.
Spectators are not allowed to bring beverages into the playing area.
Spectators are not allowed in the “player’s only” bathroom.
The tournament staff retains the right to expel from the tournament room any spectator who does not comply with the rules or is disturbing the tournament in any way."

They also prohibit "boorish behavior"! 

Emphases added.
Source: http://millionairechess.com/tournament/tournament-policies/
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2211
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #478 - 12/14/13 at 04:58:12
Post Tools
Maybe he is not only using Houdini, maybe he is Houdini. Couldn't resist that one, but seriously, this guy must be suffering from mental illness or defect.

Makes for entertaining reading for the public, not so much fun to be paired against him in a tournament.

Actually I don't think Borislav (Houdini) Ivanov is the big problem anymore, but more so the subtle cheaters that are hard to detect. I think some young German IM was caught fairly recently, his name was something Katainy or Katainy something, I will have to google it to confirm.   

Sad state of affairs for professional players, annoying for amateur players, and inevitable for online players.  Sad
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 34
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo