Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade (Read 7115 times)
Aziridine
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #11 - 02/02/13 at 23:58:14
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Why was Kasparov entitled to a rematch? Ex-champions haven't had rights to a rematch since Botvinnik - Tal 1961, with two exceptions: Karpov got a rematch in 1986 because he was leading the 1984 match when it was stopped, and Kramnik got a rematch with Anand in 2008 because he lost his title the year before in a tournament, not a match. While in both cases the rationale for the exception was undoubtedly controversial, at least it was there.
  
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Keano
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #10 - 02/02/13 at 22:54:00
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Respectfully disagree GeneM, morally Kramnik had to give Kasparov a rematch, I know Kasparov didnt put it in the contract, he was just sure he would win as usual and who could blame him. Remember aso Kramnik lost his match against Shirov to play Kasparov, but I'm sick of talking about it now. If Kramnik wanted to be a true world champion in the age old tradition he simply had to grant Kasparov a rematch, its crystal clear in my head and history will judge him badly,
  
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GeneM
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #9 - 02/02/13 at 22:08:45
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Keano wrote on 02/02/13 at 20:24:00:
With respect to Kramnik ... I'll never forgive him for not giving Kaspy a return match, nor will history I suspect.

The fault lies with FIDE for Kasparov not having an opportunity to concretely EARN a challenge re-match against WCChamp Kramnik.

A properly run FIDE would never have suffered the split away from FIDE by then WCChamp Kasparov. That split badly disrupted all candidates' cycles etc for many years.

FIDE continued on lacking the competence to re-unify with the WCChamp title for many years.

One major source of ineptitude with FIDE is FIDE's constitutional clauses that give every tiny country the same voting power as large countries that are heavily into chess.
Another is FIDE's top man Kirsan I.

Shifting all the blame onto Kramnik is emotional, not logical.
Kramnik is the WCChamp who reunited the WCChamp title with FIDE, which has since created an overall situation that is better than the situation after Kasparov dis-unified the WCC and FIDE.
There is nothing to "forgive" Kramnik for.

  

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Keano
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #8 - 02/02/13 at 20:24:00
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The match I'd love to see is Aronian-Carlsen. I have a suspicion in a match Aronian might have the upper hand. With respect to Kramnik fans he's had his day in the sun now, and I'll never forgive him for not giving Kaspy a return match, nor will history I suspect. Good player though.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #7 - 02/02/13 at 20:12:12
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Speaking of Aronian, I guess he might have been showing a sense of humor today in the Bundesliga:  1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 e6 5. d4 d5 6. a3 a6 7. dc Bxc5 8. b4.  Here his opponent (Hrant Melkumyan) deviated from Rotlewi-Rubinstein with 8...Ba7, and the game was eventually drawn.
  
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #6 - 02/02/13 at 13:38:25
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I would like to see a match Kramnik vs. Carlsen too. I wonder if Kramnik would be able to beat Aronion in the after next cycle.

I hope FIDE will think again about the length of the world championship match. I miss matches with a length of 24 games. I guess it is just impossible to aquire sponsors for this?!
  
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #5 - 02/02/13 at 13:23:41
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I think it depends what Anand wants. My impression is that he's looking for a way to get out. I think deep down he won't be that motivated to beat Carlsen, whereas I don't think he could bear the idea of losing to Gelfand; Bob's a good player and all, but not one fit to be number 16.

I thought it was November 2013, in theory anyway?

I think Carlsen's a pretty big favourite to win the Candidates. I'd agree the ELO scale perhaps overrates him - it was amazing to listen to him in the press conferences in London; he clearly thinks that you just avoid all drawish continuations against 2720 punters even if you're worse, because obviously they're not going to be able to beat you anyway and sooner or later they'll do something stupid and you'll win. I really can't see Big V accumulating enough points to beat Magnus; he's just he's too efficient at beating your Svidlers and Gelfands compared to Vlad. Though to be sure an Ivanchuk tear can win any tournament.

The match I'd really like to see is Carlsen-Kramnik. Sadly, I don't think we're going to, unless I suppose Carlsen beats Anand and Kramnik has one more cycle in him.
  
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #4 - 02/02/13 at 11:06:04
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Has Carlsen showed clear superiority against Anand in their encounters in the last 2-3 years? Let's take it from 2009 untill today when Carlsen has having his best and Anand his worst. I think that the score is +2 for Carlsen or something (not counting blitz, rapid and blindfold games). Considering the fact that Anand is much better match player and he is showing signs of getting back in form recently, i'd certainly not vote for a clear Carlsen win. I honestly cannot see it happening. Carlsen is very effective against slightly worse opposition. This gives him a huge plus elo but says nothing about his chances against Anand or in a tournamnet were there are no weak players to win against easily.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #3 - 02/02/13 at 10:10:13
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Typically real problems with nerves there though.

But both Kramnik and Aronian have been genuinely close to Carlsen in recent tournaments and seem in good form. He's the individual favourite, but Carlsen vs the rest must be somewhere around 50/50.

As for eny eventual match, I dunno because they're so different to anything he's got any experience of.
  
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #2 - 02/02/13 at 05:10:18
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And what of the old master Ivanchuk? On his best strides, no one can stand before him.... Mtel 08 anyone?
  
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Re: Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
Reply #1 - 02/02/13 at 04:19:49
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The strongest player doesn't always win in matches, Kramnik-Kasparov 2000. Also it's no guarantee Carlsen will win the candidates; Aronian, Kramnik, Radjabov and Grischuk all have good chances if they get off to a good start. Also Svidler has been in the bunker for a long time, I doubt he'll get many more chances to compete for the world title so as the huge underdog he'll be very motivated. Also I don't want to rule out Gelfand either tbh. I think the candidates will be very close and exciting.
  
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GeneM
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Anti-Climax coming, Carlsen v Anand; Topalov fade
02/01/13 at 22:14:22
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. .
A 2014 World Chess Championship match, with Anand defending his title against Carlsen, seems likely.

I doubt the match will be close during its final 1/3 of games, or that the outcome will feel much in doubt.
Carlsen seems likely to win the match comfortably.

Unfortunately, the overall effect will be a bit anti-climactic.

Carlsen has hit is stride, and is setting Elo records with every tournament.

Anand is too old, or is too tired of chess and wants other things from life too long neglected. Anand barely tied Gelfand in regulation games, to defend his title in speed chess playoffs. Anand gets pushed around in the few tournaments he plays nowadays.
Anand of today is not the Anand who beat Kramnik in 2008. Indeed I think Kramnik would defeat Anand now if they were to play another 1-on-1 match.

Anand has been an excellent WCChamp, but his reign will likely end next year --- end in a calm quite manner vs Carlsen. There will be no rapid playoff.




On another note, it is astonishing how Topalov faded so quickly, and went from being for years a center of attention for most of the 2000's decade, to being merely an unmentioned after-thought at most nowadays. Kamsky's revenge victory over Topalov in the 2011/May candidates' knockout tournament (won by Gelfand) was the final end, it seems.
Topalov's fade has been another anti-climax.

Topalov was an exciting player; albeit one whose legacy will always be slightly stained by his cooperation with the bad behavior of his powerful but ethically challenged manager Silvio Danailov.

. .
  

GeneM , CastleLong.com , FRC-chess960
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