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Poll Question: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 - Which is the most similar to the Caro-Kann?



« Created by: Marc Benford on: 01/13/14 at 00:48:16 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4 (Read 36387 times)
Laramonet
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #51 - 01/24/14 at 10:04:43
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Hi Marc, though there's been many posts around the early e3 move order, I follow the recommendation in Bologan's Chebanenko DVD. That is:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6

then

3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 a6

or 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5.

The idea is to aim for the main line move order position
1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 5.e3 Bf5
without allowing the early e3 move order to give White anything extra.
  
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Marc Benford
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #50 - 01/24/14 at 09:07:21
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Just a quick question: after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6, are 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 a6 and 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 a6 also considered to be part of the Chameleon/Chebanenko Variation?
Basically my question is: if I choose to play the Chameleon/Chebanenko Variation which is 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 a6, should I also answer 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 and 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 with the move 4...a6 ?
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #49 - 01/14/14 at 10:50:21
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kylemeister wrote on 01/13/14 at 15:54:05:
My "favorite" was when somebody here wrote (approximately), "I've been wanting to play opening/variation X for years, but nobody has written a repertoire book on it." 

Smiley
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #48 - 01/14/14 at 08:36:44
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Back to the era I started to buy some chess books (early 90s), repertoire books were thriving and there was also a good reason for that: no internet, less money and overall less available information.

But times have changed and it is now easy to use the mix & match approach as a starting point and of course try it out and add your own analysis where needed.

There is also a big change in openings used by normal club players who nowadays play almost about everything. In my experience, in the early 90s it was ~10 main openings played over and over again. So a good repertoire book made some sense, as most people played only a few lines (they were married to them!).
  

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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #47 - 01/13/14 at 16:00:39
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Repertoire books are not so bad. I love to have a "starting point" for everything I could face. However, obviously that's only where your own work starts ...
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #46 - 01/13/14 at 15:54:05
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My "favorite" was when somebody here wrote (approximately), "I've been wanting to play opening/variation X for years, but nobody has written a repertoire book on it."
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #45 - 01/13/14 at 14:08:00
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I don't mind the books themselves, I mind what they've done to many people's notions of what it takes to be prepared to play a game of chess. 

And hey, I know how to spell--some Americanisms notwithstanding.
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #44 - 01/13/14 at 12:05:09
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I do not mind repertoire books.With the advent of QC I understand a certain, hmmm, reverence. But people tend to live their lives by them, which is...a wee bit odd. Mix n' match, think, choose. Play.
Just people flogging a dead horse grates.
A horse which is exceedingly deceased and has been propping up daisies for many moons.
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #43 - 01/13/14 at 11:05:10
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Bibs wrote on 01/13/14 at 01:09:23:
Marc Benford wrote on 01/13/14 at 00:48:16:
I still can't make up my mind on what opening to play against 1.d4, so I just added a poll.


Just trolling now, surely? This is ridiculous. You have had lots of advice. Get some books, study, and just go play some chess.


This is why I hate repertoires and "repertoire books."  People want a Choose Your Own Adventure book that will give them a win no matter what their opponent does.
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #42 - 01/13/14 at 01:09:23
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Marc Benford wrote on 01/13/14 at 00:48:16:
I still can't make up my mind on what opening to play against 1.d4, so I just added a poll.


Just trolling now, surely? This is ridiculous. You have had lots of advice. Get some books, study, and just go play some chess.
  
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Marc Benford
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #41 - 01/13/14 at 00:48:16
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I still can't make up my mind on what opening to play against 1.d4, so I just added a poll.
  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #40 - 01/11/14 at 09:19:19
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Some caution is needed in trusting engine evaluations. They are very good for identifying hidden resources in games that had a decisive result. In quiet positions, an engine evaluation of approximate equality will sometimes express its confidence that it will be able to handle everything the opponent will later throw at it, rather than that the position offers equivalent chances to both players. So in that Slav line with .. h6, Black is allowing White to try to build a centre with e4 without challenge. The engine believes Black can allow this but it isn't always pleasant to defend these in practice. So a reason why Black will play Bb4 is to fight for control of the e4 square, regarding control of that square worth giving up a Bishop pair if necessary. With a pawn on a4, a Bishop on b4 isn't going to be challenged by a3, so later taking on c3 isn't mandatory. Blocking the path of the Bishop on c1 with the pawn on e3 is a concession so allowing White to play e4 can be to White's advantage. 

  
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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #39 - 01/11/14 at 00:53:22
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Thought I would mention that identifying a 1.d4 defense that is most similar to the caro-kann might begin with a CK defender's answer to the panov botv.  Where do you put your dark-square bishop?  Direct transpositions are possible.  For example Karpov played the Bb4 Nimzo and the CK-panov lines with Bb4. In other threads MarcBenford says he wants to play against IQP.  So, Karpov's Nimzo lines (i.e., c5 against rubinstein) come to mind.  Khalifman wrote a whole book about this repertoire: Opening for Black According to Karpov.
  

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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #38 - 01/06/14 at 15:39:03
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/05/14 at 20:19:21:
You will feel extra satisfaction when you succeed with them, and feel extra disappoint when you fail.

Actually not - I think it far more disappointing to play a move I don't really like because stronger players than me advocate it - and lose then. The thing is though that as soon I decide to play a move I think good against all odds I stop asking other people for advise.
Winning or losing - playing moves I think good has taught me a few valuable lessons.
  

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Re: Need a quiet, slow, positional opening against 1d4
Reply #37 - 01/06/14 at 03:56:02
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/05/14 at 20:19:21:
Marc Benford wrote on 01/05/14 at 14:48:31:


And no, Houdini doesn't agree with your assessment of the position after your 8.Qe2
He gives only 0.19 after either 8... Bh7 or 8... Bb4
And since Houdini evaluates White's first move advantage at ~0.30, the position after 7... h6 8. Qe2 is actually very satisfying for Black.


At first I was going to make some kind of sarcastic/disparaging remark along the lines of "another sloughter," but I'll refrain.  Your later posts haven't helped your case, though.  

What I want to say is this: you're right.  Play 7...h6.  In a way, you're doing exactly what everyone SHOULD do--not swallowing theory without questioning it, and thinking for yourself.  Actually, I question how much you're thinking for yourself instead of just parroting Houdini, but nevermind that.

You've found an opening that leads to the kinds of positions YOU want to play.  That's wonderful!  Play it.  When you find certain lines that don't suit, search for alternatives.  Sometimes, the alternatives you play will be ones that you think up yourself.  

Play "your" lines and be happy.  You will feel extra satisfaction when you succeed with them, and feel extra disappoint when you fail.  Hopefully, the failures will inspire you to work on what went wrong, and you'll have improvements in mind for the next time.

The big caveat is, be intelligent and humble about it.  Try to compare "your" moves to the plans that have been played before by players MUCH stronger than yourself.  See what the pluses and minuses are.  As you become a better chess player and face stronger and stronger opposition, you might find that "your" lines are no longer appropriate or that they've been flat-out refuted; that's not a problem, as long as you have the intelligence and humility to learn from your creative efforts and move on to other lines.  Eventually, you'll probably start playing further along main line theory and "your own" theory will come deeper into established lines.  It's a natural progression.

But don't think that a bunch of people who are far stronger and far more experienced than yourself at the game are necessarily going to be impressed with your ideas.  Enjoy your own personal, creative journey to chess improvement.  

Lastly, with your attitude and the way you parrot Houdini lines, though, I wouldn't be surprised if you did not improve much in chess.  Still, my earlier words were giving you the benefit of the doubt, and you should try to live up to them.

Good luck.


This was truly beautiful.
  
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