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Question: Who wins?


* This poll has now closed *
Anand by +3 1 (1.3%) Anand by +2 1 (1.3%) Anand by +1 11 (14.1%) The Match is Drawn 1 (1.3%) Carlsen by +1 25 (32.1%) Carlsen by +2 30 (38.5%) Carlsen by +3 6 (7.7%) Anand by more than +3 0 (0.0%) Carlsen by more than +3 3 (3.8%) Total votes: 78 « Created by: TalJechin on: 09/24/13 at 08:40:59 »

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WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen (Read 126722 times)

Pale Horse, Pale Rider Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 287 Joined: 12/26/12	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #118 - 11/16/13 at 12:16:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	MartinC wrote on 11/16/13 at 12:08:54: No great results from it though. You'd hope there were no chances of white losing this (~move 33) but...... This is weird still. Appearently Anand surprised Carlsen with 10. Bg5, at least Carlsen spent some 15 minutes there, and yet Anand got nothing really. Probably he is even a little bit worse now (move 37 played by white) due to his inferior structure. White proved nothing so far in this championship.


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MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2115 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #117 - 11/16/13 at 12:08:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	No great results from it though. You'd hope there were no chances of white losing this (~move 33) but......


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #116 - 11/16/13 at 10:13:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	OK, well I obviously wasn't very clear I didnt mean to say Anand resigned in a drawn position! Be interesting to put those tablebases on the position before 51...Ke6? Today Anand goes 4.d3 against the Berlin....


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Pale Horse, Pale Rider Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 287 Joined: 12/26/12	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #115 - 11/16/13 at 09:35:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	Let's maybe just settle this issue and agree that giving an exact move number is helpful, so that everyone talks about the same?! Today a Ruy Lopez again, but the Berlin avoided (no idea what this system is called, since i am clueless about the Ruy Lopez). Appearently Anand thinks that the Berlin endgame is not enough += for him in the match situation...


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Klick God Member Offline Posts: 528 Joined: 01/31/03	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #114 - 11/16/13 at 09:30:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	There was made a claim that "even at the end he just has to move over his king to stop the a-pawn running.." and I posted the position at the end. If it then was clear that some prior position is meant and there is a misunderstanding it is very easy to point it out and clarify the position. Instead we are left guessing and subjected to name-calling? Tablebases are a simple proof that the positions are wins and many would say they are trivial, but if it is claimed that they are "in the end not all that difficult to defend" and the wins in "practical chess not really relevant.", what can one say but beg to differ? People misplay chess all the time, like being unable to mate with knight and bishop, or even with two bishops, but I honestly do not think that would be the case with Carlsen.

	There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #113 - 11/16/13 at 01:34:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	Klick have you gone completely mad obviously its lost there we are not idiots! what I said was to stop the a-pawn running. Go back and have a look and a think. btw the other bit what is that, if you are quoting me tablebases I'll take your word but I've played this and in a practical game it is nervy but in the end not all that difficult to defend. Tablebases great, but for practical chess not really relevant.


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Klick God Member Offline Posts: 528 Joined: 01/31/03	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #112 - 11/16/13 at 01:19:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Yes, even at the end he just has to move over his king to stop the a-pawn running doesn't he? He can give up his own pawn then and the R+2 rook pawns v R is a theoretical draw... I dont know what the other lad Klick is going on about either. I guess you did not try very hard either, so to make it simple here is the position. Theoretical draw? I think not. Quote: Not really a rule, its a theoretically drawn position Again, they are not, as the following positions similar to the game should convince you.

	There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #111 - 11/16/13 at 01:08:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	tony37 wrote on 11/16/13 at 00:05:15: on move 51 you're right and yes, I would love to see a match Kramnik-Carlsen no bother, thanks for the apology!!


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tony37 God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Joined: 10/16/10	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #110 - 11/16/13 at 00:05:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	on move 51 you're right and yes, I would love to see a match Kramnik-Carlsen


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #109 - 11/15/13 at 23:48:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	its move 51 ...Ke6? moves away from the a-pawn. I was thinking something like 51...Kc6!? at the time keeping an eye on the a-pawn, and I still think that should be OK, but Speelman says 51...Re2 draws so I'll take his word for it, anyhow the concept is clear. In any case Anand used bad time management as Smyslov_Fan says, he moved too quickly there, and before spent ages on simple moves. Over-all I'd say this is because of the "fear factor". Now I think Carlsen will win this match, Kramnik will win the next candidates, and then Kramnik will give him a lesson.


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ErictheRed God Member Offline USCF National Master Posts: 2534 Location: USA Joined: 10/02/05	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #108 - 11/15/13 at 23:41:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Who among you thought this was going to be a pretty match? We all knew that this was how Carlsen's wins would come, didn't we?


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tony37 God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Joined: 10/16/10	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #107 - 11/15/13 at 23:33:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	well, if the black king can block the a pawn then yes, but can he (on move 53)? I don't think so


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #106 - 11/15/13 at 22:42:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	tony37 wrote on 11/15/13 at 21:49:17: Keano wrote on 11/15/13 at 20:10:44: He can give up his own pawn then and the R+2 rook pawns v R is a theoretical draw. is this a new rule in chess? Not really a rule, its a theoretically drawn position, I remember it because I defended it when I was 15 years old in an important game - a long time ago!!! Speelman has just confirmed my point his game of the day btw, so I dont know what the other lad Klick is going on about either.


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tony37 God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Joined: 10/16/10	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #105 - 11/15/13 at 21:49:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	Keano wrote on 11/15/13 at 20:10:44: He can give up his own pawn then and the R+2 rook pawns v R is a theoretical draw. is this a new rule in chess?


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Klick God Member Offline Posts: 528 Joined: 01/31/03	Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen Reply #104 - 11/15/13 at 21:21:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Yes, even at the end he just has to move over his king to stop the a-pawn running doesn't he? He can give up his own pawn then and the R+2 rook pawns v R is a theoretical draw. No, I am sure you will see why if you take another look.

	There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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