Poll
Poll closed Question: Who wins?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Anand by +3    
  1 (1.3%)
Anand by +2    
  1 (1.3%)
Anand by +1    
  11 (14.1%)
The Match is Drawn    
  1 (1.3%)
Carlsen by +1    
  25 (32.1%)
Carlsen by +2    
  30 (38.5%)
Carlsen by +3    
  6 (7.7%)
Anand by more than +3    
  0 (0.0%)
Carlsen by more than +3    
  3 (3.8%)




Total votes: 78
« Created by: TalJechin on: 09/24/13 at 08:40:59 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen (Read 126627 times)
Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #88 - 11/15/13 at 14:30:09
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LeeRoth wrote on 11/15/13 at 14:25:35:


So, no, Magnus hasn't gone crazy, he isn't afraid, and he isn't trying to catch Anand out in funny openings.  He is simply following his match strategy -- something that was probably decided upon months ago as the best way for Magnus to win the match.


I think in an interview Kramnik (after almost qualifying for this match) said, that Carlsen has no chance to  catch up on Anand when it comes to opening prep in the remaining time to the WC. Maybe he and his team came to the same conclusion and just screwed the idea of winning the opening battle with white against Anand and concentrated on black openings in which he seems to be well prepared (at least as suggested by game 2 and 4) ...
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #87 - 11/15/13 at 14:25:35
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Agree with Martin.  Kasparov has explained this.  Magnus is trying to reach "his" kind of position, something calm where he can play forever.  He and his team apparently feel that Magnus has more of an advantage over Anand in such positions than he would in a sharp or complicated position.  

So, no, Magnus hasn't gone crazy, he isn't afraid, and he isn't trying to catch Anand out in funny openings.  He is simply following his match strategy -- something that was probably decided upon months ago as the best way for Magnus to win the match.




  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #86 - 11/15/13 at 14:19:00
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Sure, but if you want to grind someone from a nothing position, it helps to exhaust them from the struggle first. Better still, a somewhat complex struggle gives you a better chance of simplifying to a genuine 50-50 win/draw type position.

(of course, these comments are leaving hostages to fortune, but I'll take that chance for a decisive result  Wink )

  

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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #85 - 11/15/13 at 14:12:33
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I don't think he's obsessed with purity at all. He's just used to beating awfully strong people - including Anand! - fairly reliably from 'nothing' positions.

So he's trying that as his tactic. Very logical, although perhaps his style has a got a tiny bit unbalanced that way. It can easily happen.

What he'll do if he's one down after game 7 might be interesting to see.
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #84 - 11/15/13 at 13:56:19
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My patzeresque view is that Carlsen is going about this a bit wrong. You have to earn the right to play genuine two-result chess; the days of Capablanca - NN are over. You have to be prepared to get your hands at least a little dirty if you aspire to play very clean  Smiley
  

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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #83 - 11/15/13 at 13:15:02
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Dink Heckler wrote on 11/15/13 at 10:39:02:
I'm not saying the games were bad; just that there's a mismatch between the praise heaped on them and the actual chess.


Agree, have been underwhelmed so far.
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #82 - 11/15/13 at 10:39:02
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I'm not saying the games were bad; just that there's a mismatch between the praise heaped on them and the actual chess.
  

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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #81 - 11/15/13 at 10:38:35
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Yea, i guess Carlsen's preparation is really weird. I think in this way is not only more like Karpov than Kasparov, he seems to have an anti-Kasparov approach to chess. This is not really news, since he has been playing non-critical openings for quite some time. However, I (and I guess many people) really would have suspected this to chance for the WC.
Good news is that the game now gets quite imbalanced ...
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #80 - 11/15/13 at 10:36:24
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Game 5 and Yes! It is a Triangle System Marshall Gambit!! but Carlsen chose a sideline, 6 Nc3 and not 6 Bd2. Carlsen chooses  a move which is not considered by Scherbakov in his most excellent book: 10 Qd3. Is this a novelty? Scherbakov only considers 10 dxc5 (his mainline) and 10 Rc1!?

Is Carlsen trying to catch out Anand? But both are playing very fast.
  

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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #79 - 11/15/13 at 10:27:27
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Game 4 interesting yes. High class in places too. Still,  Anand does seem to have suggested that he basically blundered the a2 pawn so hardly unblemished Smiley Game 3 probably better from that perspective.

It certainly hasn't been a remotely terrible match so far though. Never likely to get really sharp stuff with the way Carlsen has been playing recently. Just thankful that Anand has showed up playing well.

Think I agree about the opening in game 5. Not sure why 5 e4 then ducking the principled lines as quite a few manouvering ideas possible instead. I'm sure he's got his reasons.
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #78 - 11/15/13 at 10:21:59
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I am not impressed at all with Carlsen's opening play in game 5 so far. To my eye it looks very amateurish and Anand is equal already.

Having said that, he'll probably prove me wrong now and go and win!!
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #77 - 11/15/13 at 10:06:26
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Dink Heckler wrote on 11/15/13 at 09:59:15:
I think the praise heaped on games 3 and 4 are a bit over the top. Any hint of tension, and people go wild. It almost seems as if people want to convince themselves that what they are watching is special. Even game two attracted positive comments. This trend was particularly apparent during the diabolical Anand - Gelfand match, and these tendencies are exerting themselves again.

Whenever I see such commentary, I am reminded of the words of former Real Madrid coach and World Cup winner, Jorge Valdano: "Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable. Put a shit hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's a shit hanging from a stick."


Not sure what you are on about here really? I think at least game 4 was high class and interesting, no?!  Huh
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #76 - 11/15/13 at 09:59:15
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I think the praise heaped on games 3 and 4 are a bit over the top. Any hint of tension, and people go wild. It almost seems as if people want to convince themselves that what they are watching is special. Even game two attracted positive comments. This trend was particularly apparent during the diabolical Anand - Gelfand match, and these tendencies are exerting themselves again.

Whenever I see such commentary, I am reminded of the words of former Real Madrid coach and World Cup winner, Jorge Valdano: "Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable. Put a shit hanging from a stick in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's a shit hanging from a stick."
  

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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #75 - 11/14/13 at 17:58:07
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Match review so far:

With no decisive games and only a couple of moments of danger for the players, it is difficult to say that either player has moved the mercury on the likely result.  Of course, from an ELO perspective, draws have to be favorable results for the Champion, who has a fairly massive reputation as a rapidplay player.  Certainly the estimations of the multitudes would be different if the match were drawn after 12 games.

Anand's opening preparation has been slightly better.  Game 4 was obviously an exception, but it is not surprising as Carlsen had prepared the 10...Be7 line at home.  Anand's play was at least enterprising, which is a good sign.  Thus far I have been impressed with the Champion's play; he has not blundered four games into the match, which is more than can be said for the Gelfand and Topalov matches.

Interestingly, two games in a row have seen complex middlegames where Carlsen, by his own admission, missed more tricks than Anand did.  I would have liked to see Anand try to make something more of his position in Game 3, but he forced a clear draw fairly confidently, and it was a Black game.

If Carlsen goes into the Barcza again, I think we can expect to see a new wrinkle from Anand fairly early.  Anand has never been willing to "sit still" and wait for his opponent to find a chink in his WC matches a la Kasparov; he makes a point of varying and using the extraordinary breadth of his preparation.
  
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Re: WCH 2013 Anand - Carlsen
Reply #74 - 11/14/13 at 05:17:59
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Game 4 - the sharp Berlin keeps the fire burning: 

  
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