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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) re 2.. E 6 mover order (Read 19320 times)
RdC
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #18 - 08/08/14 at 16:33:50
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Today's game between Short and Movsesian at the Olympiad was not good news for the Qe2 idea. The opening started 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 Nf6 5. Qe2 and now Black played 5. .. e5. White developed with Na3, c3 and d3 After a later d5 by Black, White was left with a reversed colours type of position you can get in the Fianchetto variations of the King Indian, with a backward pawn on the d file and all your opponent's men ganging up on it.

I would have thought White needs to gain space, so a plan of c3, Rd1 and d4 suggests itself.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #17 - 08/07/14 at 13:41:28
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Thanks for the replyes.

I had never even looked at d5!

The sicilian I am most intrested in is Taimanov.
I even own the out of date Winning with the Sicilian by Taimanov as well as Taimanovs seleceted games.
I also own the Chess explanied book , the Move by Move book and Fleixlbe sicilian but I thought that d5 looked llogical with e6 already played so I did not read that chapter but transposning to some French Tarrash like does looks more intersting.

  
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kylemeister
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #16 - 08/06/14 at 23:46:55
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Glad to be of service; I came across it in my .pgn browsing and thought it looked rather thematic and entertaining.

As far as I know, White's Re1 and Be3 (in place of Nbd2-b3) was unusual, and the early c3 might in fact be slightly disadvantageous compared to early Nd2.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #15 - 08/06/14 at 23:09:13
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Quote:
Of course after 2...e6 3. c3 d5 4. ed Black can also choose to steer toward an IQP for himself, rather than his opponent.  Look how easy it is to win, from this recent game between a 2303 and a 2614 player   Smiley


Thanks kylemeister! -- I'm about to take this up so this is a nice timely game!
  
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Stigma
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #14 - 08/06/14 at 22:41:20
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Sure it's a possibility. I'll admit that I usually try to avoid both sides of IQP positions! Well, now that I've said it I had better do something about that weakness - where is that old Baburin book gathering dust?!

IIRC White is supposed to retreat the bishop to d3 voluntarily at some point in that line - maybe on move 11? Would avoid some of the Qb6-related trouble. 

Obvious similarities with the related line with an early Nbd2 played (from the French Tarrasch) of course, but having the option to delay that move certainly can't be a disadvantage for White.
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #13 - 08/06/14 at 21:35:46
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In general that's one of my favorite tactics, a bishop (or queen) pinning the f-pawn and plopping a piece on g3(6).  Obviously the most fun is when you get to play ...Qxg3+.  For some reason it seems to be easy for reasonably strong players to overlook.  Beautiful smothered mate there at the end!
  
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #12 - 08/06/14 at 20:52:09
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Of course after 2...e6 3. c3 d5 4. ed Black can also choose to steer toward an IQP for himself, rather than his opponent.  Look how easy it is to win, from this recent game between a 2303 and a 2614 player   Smiley 

  
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Stigma
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #11 - 08/06/14 at 18:01:02
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The c3 Sicilan is a bit annoying for anyone who plays 2...e6 or 2...Nc6, since you have to have something you can play against both the 2.c3 and 3.c3 move orders. Not necessarily the same line, though that would of course be economical! 

Against 2.c3 Black even has funny sidelines like 2...g6, 2...b6 or 2...e5, as well as a wider choice of lines after 2...d5.

When I played the Kan, I found it particularly difficult to find lines with good winning chances after 2.Nf3 e6 3.c3. If White would only be so kind to transpose to the French Advance after 3...d5, but mostly they exchange on d5. Delchev and Semkov offer a very solid repertoire with 4.exd5 Qxd5 in their brand new Kan/Taimanov book, but you'd have to be a strong technical player to win from many of those positions (often IQP positions, if that's your kind of thing). To me that doesn't seem very consistent with the unbalanced Kan, but I'm not sure there are better options either.

The Taimanov is a more solid "Open", so combining that with 3.c3 d5 4.exd5 Qxd5 makes a lot of sense.
« Last Edit: 08/06/14 at 19:07:17 by Stigma »  

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TalJechin
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #10 - 08/05/14 at 19:21:06
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bragesjo wrote on 08/05/14 at 18:50:53:
A bit of topic but I like say something.

I have been thinking about take up a e6 based sicilian like Kan, Taimanov or Paulsen.
Currenty I play Caro Kann but as one of my friends says: you should play sicilian and not Caro Kann!

Almost every time I try it, White players plays 3 c3 and only 3 d4  if very booked up. I also often met 3 d3 if they play 2 Nf3 to begin with.
The question is if I  should specialize on c3 sicilians or keep Caro Kann as main weapon and forget about playing e6 sicilians.


If you're happy with your score in the Caro-Kann then there's no reason to change, if not then try something new! Smiley
  
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bragesjo
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #9 - 08/05/14 at 18:50:53
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A bit of topic but I like say something.

I have been thinking about take up a e6 based sicilian like Kan, Taimanov or Paulsen.
Currenty I play Caro Kann but as one of my friends says: you should play sicilian and not Caro Kann!

Almost every time I try it, White players plays 3 c3 and only 3 d4  if very booked up. I also often met 3 d3 if they play 2 Nf3 to begin with.
The question is if I  should specialize on c3 sicilians or keep Caro Kann as main weapon and forget about playing e6 sicilians.
  
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #8 - 08/04/14 at 15:42:33
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11 ...Bb7 is also inaccurate. It is better to play 11 ...a5 followed by ...a4. The bishop might be better at a6.
  
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #7 - 08/04/14 at 11:19:35
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MartinC wrote on 08/04/14 at 08:29:03:
- my impression had been that black couldn't really afford to give white e4 like that.


That would be the long-standing conventional wisdom. You sometimes try to play c4 in order to provoke d4 as a response. Perhaps it isn't a surprise to see Sadler playing in this style. In his youth didn't he take part in some TV competition where given a position, he had to say which Fischer game it was from? I think they made it easier by only using the 60 memorable games.
  
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #6 - 08/04/14 at 08:29:03
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Sadler did have hundreds of elo on his side Smiley d4 surprised me rather though - my impression had been that black couldn't really afford to give white e4 like that, or the attack really does become serious. 

Maybe its how some people are playing now though.

Whites attack in this line is certainly the sort of slow burn but sometimes unstoppable thing that computers do struggle with.
  
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #5 - 08/04/14 at 00:30:48
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I'm not sure if it really overthrows conventional assessments, but today's Olympiad game between Sadler (ENG) and Jingyoa Tin (SIN) started



Sadler went on to win, not withstanding the engine assessment as slightly better for Black.

It's a potential Anti French should Black co-operate.

  
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Re: re 2.. E 6 mover order
Reply #4 - 11/09/13 at 04:34:17
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RdC wrote on 11/08/13 at 22:20:28:
Laramonet wrote on 11/08/13 at 10:49:58:
Gawain Jones suggests the King's Indian Attack, 3.d3 with an early Qe2 usually.


Adams has been making the idea 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. g3 work over the past year. If Black plays an immediate d5, you go exd5 exd5 and then d4. If that isn't played, you can meet Nf6 with Qe2 and then continue with 0-0 , Rd1 with the idea of playing d4 with the Rook behind it.



Thank you i took alook in my chessbase data base  adams has a large amount of these games !  thanks ,  he and jones seem to really  play these closed systems full time (almost)
  
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