You know he was White in game seven, right? Are we saying 1 e4 is just no longer a winning try on account of the Berlin?

Exactly, Anand was lucky that Carlsen even gave him that much of a look in in Game 9.  

He had to try to win Game 7 with White, you can excuse him for wanting to steady the ship but there was no time for that, and having done that he could in no way afford to let Game 8 go the same way. Leaving it to having to win 2 out of the 4 remaining games against Carlsen in decent form was clearly hopeless imo.

This is the whole problem with the 12 game format, we saw it with Anand - Gelfand as well.  One loss or in this case two has such a huge impact on the match that there is not enough room for creativity in trying to recover.  It is to Carlsen's credit that he didn't just shut up shop completely as I'm sure many top players would have done (and I'm sure Gelfand wishes he had).

Good Lord, BP, stop with this show-us-your-medals crap. I’m not the one giving it the big I’ve-been-there-I-know bollocks. I played for various schools and my college, and I help coach my son’s Sunday morning team. Even at that level, though, the sorest two losers I can think of by far were a terrifying South African who coached my school’s U11 rugby team (usually unbeaten, in stark contrast to all the other age groups, and when we lost when I was playing for them, by God we found out why), and the (rather more petulant and far less effective) head coach of my son’s team.

>Secondly, as I said in the post above, the fact motivating athletes is necessary for a coach tells you precisely who is most responsible for the outcome of the competition - the athlete. 

Obviously in some trivial sense it’s true that it’s the performance of the players that determines a team’s success, but in the round I’m not sure even that’s true. Arsenal recently lost Robin van Persie, one of the best players in the league. Result; they finished in the same place that year with almost exactly the same performance. A few years back Manchester United lost Cristiano Ronaldo, one of the very best in the world. Result – they carried right on winning the league. This year they’ve lost their manager, Alex Ferguson, one of the best in the world, and one-third of the way through the season they’re in their worst league position for a generation and by common consent looking rudderless.

Of course when Captain Carrot said it varies between individuals he was spot on – it’s difficult to imagine Roy Keane and, say, Lee Sharpe reacting in the same way to defeat (something RK expands on in *his* autobiography, btw).

To be frank though this debate is stupid – you know nothing at all about football but you just believe that all sports and cultures are the same. There’s no point in discussion at that level.

Seriously, you've never even heard of any of the people I've mentioned, have you, let alone read their published descriptions of their own experiences?

Agree on that

trw wrote on 11/23/13 at 21:20:45:


First of all, I don't know why this stuff has been moved from the main thread, it is all obviously relevant to the Wch topic.  And a lot of the posts here including mine are not only about the Wch but are not even about the interviews!

The thing is, the match could and maybe should have lived up to the hype... the fact is that Anand psyched himself out and failed to make the most of his opportunities, maybe out of fear of Carlsen as Kramnik suggested.

The draw in Game 7 was understandable after the losses in Game 5 & 6, but playing the Berlin in Game 8 was inexcusable imo.  Anand's play was insipid at the worst possible times.

I don't know anything about football!

I support the Mighty Hammers

IMJohnCox wrote on 11/26/13 at 13:15:06:

By all means, tell me about your experiences as a coach that led you believe the triumphs and defeats were felt equally with your charges by comparing them to how you felt as the athlete out there competing.  My experience is precisely the opposite, and is echoed by every coach that has properly given credit to the individual or team that achieves anything. Secondly, as I said in the post above, the fact motivating athletes is necessary for a coach tells you precisely who is most responsible for the outcome of the competition - the athlete. People that experience the event second-hand, which includes coaches and players riding the bench, do not experience the game the way the ones actually playing do, and so do not feel the same effects as those most intimately involved.