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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) On Openings and Learning Chess (Read 9896 times)
bewise5
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #17 - 06/12/14 at 12:17:28
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Heh you and I have very differing concepts of 'beginners'. I feel like I need a few 'rungs' lower to find the right beginner info. 

Best of luck! Sounds like you're well on your way. 

James
  
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Sylvester
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #16 - 02/16/14 at 16:07:19
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Quote:
You can improve your opening play at any stage in your chess career. Make the most of your early years by using them to improve your intrinsic chess skill, which has very little to do with specific openings.


C.J.S. Purdy The Search for Chess Perfection II, p.57
  
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Sylvester
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #15 - 02/15/14 at 20:47:04
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Read all the books by Johan Hellsten. For example, Mastering Opening Strategy.
  
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #14 - 02/15/14 at 20:00:20
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Cheers. Yeah my tactics need work. Sometimes I'm ok and sometimes I chuck material. But anyway I wasn't really worried about theory but rather playing the "wrong" openings and only getting to play only one or two kinds of pawn structures all the time. 

For example when I use the Budapest I usually get a small center with pawns on f4, e4 and c4 vs d6 and it's the only pawn structure I play whereas with openings like the QGA or QGD there is a bigger variety of structures to play with. But I haven't had any problems with the Budapest either. Getting developed seemed pretty simple and no one has tried to keep the pawn yet. 

Thanks for the help.
  
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ChevyBanginStyle
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #13 - 02/15/14 at 16:01:06
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All things are apart, all things are a part... 

If you make blunders in the opening, should you not study the opening?

Does the stronger player win by avoiding blunders or inducing them?

Opening study is good at any level. Inappropriate opening study is bad at every level.

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The difference between a 1400 and 1900 has nothing to do with opening knowledge, or any other specific knowledge, for that matter, and everything to do with frequency and severity of blunders.
 

I call this the "De la Maza Myth." It is comforting for those aspiring for Class A, but this belief probably does more harm than good for long term improvement. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone over 1900 who honestly believes this.
  
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Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #12 - 02/15/14 at 09:30:26
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ErictheRed wrote on 02/14/14 at 18:22:38:
Fromper wrote on 02/14/14 at 16:58:43:
The difference between a 1400 and 1900 has nothing to do with opening knowledge, or any other specific knowledge, for that matter, and everything to do with frequency and severity of blunders


I disagree, but we've all gone around in circles hundreds of times on this topic on the forum.  On average, 1900 players are going to be better than 1400 players at a lot of other things than just tactics, for instance knowledge of theoretical endings (I'm sure that a significantly higher percentage of 1900 players could win a Lucena position or draw a Philidor position than a 1400 player could), general middlegame technique and having a better idea of what to do in a lot more types of positions, etc.  

It's easy for a 1400 player to see when he's blundered.  It's not so easy for him to see his position creep from +0.28 to -1.75 over the course of 20 moves, but that happens, too.


I agree with that. But this is not an argument for studying opening at 1400 rating in my opinion (probably that's not what you meant anyway, just saying). This is a case for analyzing middlegames and basic concepts of pawn structures, initiative etc.
  
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Fromper
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #11 - 02/14/14 at 21:14:31
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ErictheRed wrote on 02/14/14 at 18:22:38:
Fromper wrote on 02/14/14 at 16:58:43:
The difference between a 1400 and 1900 has nothing to do with opening knowledge, or any other specific knowledge, for that matter, and everything to do with frequency and severity of blunders


I disagree, but we've all gone around in circles hundreds of times on this topic on the forum.  On average, 1900 players are going to be better than 1400 players at a lot of other things than just tactics, for instance knowledge of theoretical endings (I'm sure that a significantly higher percentage of 1900 players could win a Lucena position or draw a Philidor position than a 1400 player could), general middlegame technique and having a better idea of what to do in a lot more types of positions, etc.  

It's easy for a 1400 player to see when he's blundered.  It's not so easy for him to see his position creep from +0.28 to -1.75 over the course of 20 moves, but that happens, too.

Ok, so maybe "nothing" and "everything" were overly strong words for me to use in that statement. But I still say tactical blunders will account for at least 75% of the losses at the 1400 level, and just studying tactics a lot is the most important thing a 1400 player can do to improve. But there are certainly other areas worth focusing on, as well. I'm not one of those "nothing but tactics" types.

But my point about openings still stands. That's the least important part of the game for anyone below 1800 to be studying.
  

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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #10 - 02/14/14 at 19:52:24
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All sorts of differences yes. Very player dependent too. Blunders are normally much, much easier to produce in bad positions.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #9 - 02/14/14 at 18:22:38
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Fromper wrote on 02/14/14 at 16:58:43:
The difference between a 1400 and 1900 has nothing to do with opening knowledge, or any other specific knowledge, for that matter, and everything to do with frequency and severity of blunders


I disagree, but we've all gone around in circles hundreds of times on this topic on the forum.  On average, 1900 players are going to be better than 1400 players at a lot of other things than just tactics, for instance knowledge of theoretical endings (I'm sure that a significantly higher percentage of 1900 players could win a Lucena position or draw a Philidor position than a 1400 player could), general middlegame technique and having a better idea of what to do in a lot more types of positions, etc.  

It's easy for a 1400 player to see when he's blundered.  It's not so easy for him to see his position creep from +0.28 to -1.75 over the course of 20 moves, but that happens, too.
  
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Fromper
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #8 - 02/14/14 at 16:58:43
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Others have beaten me to it. As soon as I read "I have played well against 1900s otb apart from some bad blunders" in the original post, I wanted to comment. The difference between a 1400 and 1900 has nothing to do with opening knowledge, or any other specific knowledge, for that matter, and everything to do with frequency and severity of blunders. 

Just play as much as possible, making sure to take the time to slow down and look for your opponents' possible replies on every move. Do a lot of tactics puzzles to learn to recognize common tactical patterns, so you can spot them quickly and accurately during your games. 

Put the opening study aside, and just play whatever openings appeal to you at the moment. Study all your games after playing them, and use a database to compare your opening play to the masters. I use 365chess.com - it's not perfect, but it's free and available to anyone with a web browser, and it's good enough most of the time. You'll learn bits and pieces of opening theory as you use your openings. Save the serious opening study for when you've reached a higher level of overall play.
  

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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #7 - 02/14/14 at 11:51:05
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MartinC wrote on 02/14/14 at 10:13:44:
A minor problem that you can't play the Blumenfeld if white goes 3 Nc3 or go back to the Budapest then either.

I think SoG combines 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5, so there is not even a minor problem.
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #6 - 02/14/14 at 10:24:52
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I agree that you should worry more about middlegames than openings.  Regarding having problems playing the Tarrasch, you would do much better to learn general middlegame plans playing with and against an isolani than studying any theory.  Of course, some good opening books are suitable to be used for middlegame study as well, but at your level you would do better to learn the middlegame ideas from a book like How to Reassess Your Chess first.
  
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MartinC
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #5 - 02/14/14 at 10:13:44
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They both seem entirely suitable openings for learning. Lots of tactics to train that, long term compensation for the pawns etc etc.

Fractionally marginal at GM level but they've both been used by very strong players from time to time.

A minor problem that you can't play the Blumenfeld if white goes 3 Nc3 or go back to the Budapest then either.
  
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #4 - 02/14/14 at 08:42:22
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GabrielGale wrote on 02/14/14 at 02:06:12:
"I have played well against 1900s otb apart from some bad blunders" I think that is the crux of the matter: Chessplayer <1800 will blunder and that is why they are <1800 and the openings are not to be blamed (unless you are losing due to the popular and well-known opening traps). 

Re openings, perhaps mandatory to learn first 10 moves (as a minimum) and more importantly, why these 10 moves. Then play chess.

Good luck. Enjoy chess! (even the losses).


I agree with this so much. Worry less, play more. Don't overthink the opening. Finding a repertoire in which you love every possible continuation is extremely hard to find. Look at a few model games, play and do analysis on your own games.
10 moves is plenty for your (original poster that is) level. When I was playing your level not so long ago I was always overprepared and my opponents wouldn't make more than 5 book moves or so.
  
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GabrielGale
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Re: On Openings and Learning Chess
Reply #3 - 02/14/14 at 02:06:12
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I am no expert chess player and this is not meant to be a criticism but hopefully constructive.
Re "I have played well against 1900s otb apart from some bad blunders" I think that is the crux of the matter: Chessplayer <1800 will blunder and that is why they are <1800 and the openings are not to be blamed (unless you are losing due to the popular and well-known opening traps). That is why the advice here will in the main about improving tactics, middlegame and endgame play. Also very important are those self-discipline factors which you need to internalise so as not to blunder. For example, I learned the acronym, "CCT" (check, capture, threat), from Richard James' book (might not be original with him). That or something similar and other thinking habits need to be learned and internalised.

Re openings, perhaps mandatory to learn first 10 moves (as a minimum) and more importantly, why these 10 moves. Then play chess.

Good luck. Enjoy chess! (even the losses).
  

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