kylemeister wrote on 04/18/14 at 22:32:54:


In one game, yes. In other, Na3 was played... xD

So were their knights kicked back with Qa4+?

kylemeister wrote on 04/18/14 at 15:55:35:


I agree; how are you going to teach the QGA to kids?  "Take the free pawn, but it's not really free, and when White threatens to recapture it don't bother defending it, because if you do you can lose very quickly, except if White plays 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dc 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3, then you need to prepare to defend the pawn with 4...a6 because if you don't White will get a big center for free...".  I mean, what?!?

Kids such as I think we're talking about (complete beginners, not even 1000 strength) don't need opening repertoires anyway.  The point of recommending the Tarrasch is this: you explain that with 1.d4, the pawn is already defended by White's Queen and so its very difficult to put pressure on it with pieces (same with 1...d5).  Hence, in the Queen's Pawn Games, both players need to try to get their c-pawns involved in the game, and blocking the pawn with ...Nc6 or Nc3 is a mistake.  I don't really care that there is something called The Chigorin Defense.

I think that the Tartakower QGD would also be fine, except that at that low level, the kids won't remember 7 moves of "theory" anyway.  But at least you can get to 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.e3 and explain that Black has only one problem with his game: what to do with the light squared bishop?  How to get it into the game?  ...b6 looks odd at first, but it allows the bishop to support Black's important central pawn and at some point Black may play ...dxc4 to open the diagonal for the bishop.  With the pawn tension in the center, the diagonal isn't really closed forever.  Same with explaining rook moves like Rac1; when there is pawn tension, the file can be opened at any time.

That's about all most kids need, until they become fairly good little tournament players (1400ish?).  If my experience is at all typical for teaching large classrooms of kids, you'll have to explain this concept over and over and over.

Don't worry about "repertoires" unless you're giving private lessons to a talented individual.

TalJechin wrote on 04/18/14 at 15:08:49:


Yea, I guess 2. c4 will not be the most abundant move. I don't see how this is a reason to not play the Tarrasch though. But I guess we can agree to disagree regarding the original poster's question.

I recommend the QG Tarrasch because it's strategically simple, it teaches IQP positions, and most importantly, it gets the minor pieces into the game in a natural, easy way. There's very little memorization that goes on, and the opening was good enough for Lasker, Alekhine, Euwe, Tal, Petrosian, Spassky, Korchnoi, Kasparov...

The drawback to the QG Tarrasch is that at the higher levels the IQP is more of a disadvantage. But it is still an excellent stepping stone to more complex openings for Black.

TalJechin wrote on 04/18/14 at 11:05:54:


I'm not sure if we talk about the same level of play. According to my experience initially kids hardly care about a pawn more or less and pawn weaknesses play no role in kids' games, as long as they can attack something with their pieces and try to checkmate the opponent's king. This doesn't apply for highly talented kids who will reach their 2nd grandmaster norm with 15 of course. But for the average kid starting to play with 7 or 8 I think the Tarrasch makes a lot of sense. Basically the same logic as playing very open positions after 1. e4 applies here.
I think the moment when they realize that the IQP is a weakness and they start losing games because of the IQP (and not by blundering a piece or overlooking a mate threat) is when other openings should be tested.

ErictheRed wrote on 04/17/14 at 21:01:25:


I wasn't being overly serious. I agree, the Tarrasch is easier to understand than other openings (QGA, QGD, Indian Defences etc etc) and therefore kids will play it better

Pale Horse, Pale Rider wrote on 04/17/14 at 20:17:44:


It's just that otherwise they will play ...Nc6 and never develop the queen's rook or bishop.  I've seen it happen over and over and over and over...