Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Endgame classification (Read 10679 times)
GMTonyKosten
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #12 - 07/05/14 at 13:47:51
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/12/14 at 11:24:28:
As soon as we upgrade to the new version of the YaBB software we will be able to have sub-boards, so that will help classification a lot.


I've added a rook + pawn sub-board, but can add some others if it helps.
  
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tp2205
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #11 - 05/12/14 at 13:27:41
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/12/14 at 13:08:59:
If you get into the detail of how many pawns in a rook ending, you will pretty much have to sort by post. There are many times when a R+3 vs R+2pawn endgame leads to one with fewer pawns. The level of classification you're talking about will require quite a bit of work even for a small section such as this.


Not really.

Let me repeat my suggestion of letting computers do the sorting. 

1) Come up with a good classification scheme. (Probably the hardest part)

2) Write a program which classifies fens/pgn according to that scheme by using the fens and either
    a) the initial positions 
    b) all positions   
contained in the pgns.

Such a program can be written using existing libraries very quickly if your classification scheme is based only on material balance. It is a bit harder if you want to include classifications such as Rfgh+a vs Rfgh or include stuff like existence of past pawns.

3) Run the program on inserted/attached fens/pgns to add the results to the posts automatically.
 
One reasonable option is to first classify by material and then decide later if the the classification scheme (and the sorting program) needs to be refined.

If you want to extract all the information (moves embedded in the text) then it would require more work but is still doable. 
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #10 - 05/12/14 at 13:08:59
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If you get into the detail of how many pawns in a rook ending, you will pretty much have to sort by post. There are many times when a R+3 vs R+2pawn endgame leads to one with fewer pawns. The level of classification you're talking about will require quite a bit of work even for a small section such as this.

To see what I'm talking about, take a look at the following thread and see how many different types of endgame are discussed.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1366243028
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #9 - 05/12/14 at 11:24:28
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TalJechin wrote on 05/12/14 at 10:10:24:
One way could be to subdivide the Endgame section into many smaller sections according to material; e.g. R+(1-2p) vs R+(0-2p), R+(3-8p) vs R+(3-8p), R+N/B vs R

or maybe more general section for stuff already solved in tablebases: 4men, 5men, 6men, 7men and only subcategorise the more common endings not found in TBs yet, like R+5p vs R+4p, Queens with pawns etc...

A lot of work initially, but self-sorting after a while, provided the right subdivision sections are created...


Yes, one or the other sounds good. As soon as we upgrade to the new version of the YaBB software we will be able to have sub-boards, so that will help classification a lot.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #8 - 05/12/14 at 10:10:24
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One way could be to subdivide the Endgame section into many smaller sections according to material; e.g. R+(1-2p) vs R+(0-2p), R+(3-8p) vs R+(3-8p), R+N/B vs R

or maybe more general section for stuff already solved in tablebases: 4men, 5men, 6men, 7men and only subcategorise the more common endings not found in TBs yet, like R+5p vs R+4p, Queens with pawns etc...

A lot of work initially, but self-sorting after a while, provided the right subdivision sections are created...
  
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #7 - 05/12/14 at 09:24:07
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That classification is about the material. If I understand correctly it's about a classification adding knowledge about positions.
  

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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #6 - 05/12/14 at 02:02:03
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Don't the Informant people have a system for classifying endgames?
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #5 - 05/12/14 at 00:43:55
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/11/14 at 17:32:21:
If you want a useful classification system, perhaps it would be helpful to create one from scratch and make it a separate part of the subject heading for each new poster to fill out? Given enough time, I could add those classifications to threads retroactively (but not individual posts).


Yes, that sounds like a good idea, but an awful lot of work!
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #4 - 05/12/14 at 00:42:02
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tp2205 wrote on 05/11/14 at 02:56:50:
Depends on the amount of work you want to put in.


None! Shocked

Vass wrote on 05/11/14 at 07:35:44:
My way to put all these together:
http://www66.zippyshare.com/v/58882591/file.html
Wink


Wow! Fantastic, thanks! Wink
  
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #3 - 05/11/14 at 17:32:21
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We could classify the endgames by the material. That's fairly common, but I don't know how helpful it will be when searching for R+4 pawns vs R+3 pawns endgames with pawns all on one side, for example. That would require an index with links to individual posts more than just a classification for each thread. 

If you want a useful classification system, perhaps it would be helpful to create one from scratch and make it a separate part of the subject heading for each new poster to fill out? Given enough time, I could add those classifications to threads retroactively (but not individual posts).
  
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Vass
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #2 - 05/11/14 at 07:35:44
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My way to put all these together:
http://www66.zippyshare.com/v/58882591/file.html
Wink
  
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tp2205
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Re: Endgame classification
Reply #1 - 05/11/14 at 02:56:50
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/10/14 at 22:30:29:
I was just looking for certain R + 4 v R + 4 endgames with a passed a-pawn, and couldn't really find it here. Apart from a lot of Poghosyan's threads it is difficult to know which endgames are discussed without actually going through them.
Considering the amount of useful material here, maybe we should have a good way to classify the threads? Does anyone have any ideas? Undecided


Depends on the amount of work you want to put in. A fairly straightforward approach is to go through all endgame posts and look for fen's and attached pgn files and index all posts using material balance or some more elaborate ECE like scheme. Extracting analysis from text is possible but more serious work (you could get a database of all endgame positions discussed here that way).
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Endgame classification
05/10/14 at 22:30:29
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I was just looking for certain R + 4 v R + 4 endgames with a passed a-pawn, and couldn't really find it here. Apart from a lot of Poghosyan's threads it is difficult to know which endgames are discussed without actually going through them.
Considering the amount of useful material here, maybe we should have a good way to classify the threads? Does anyone have any ideas? Undecided
  
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