Normal Topic Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014) (Read 8564 times)
RoleyPoley
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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #9 - 06/10/14 at 17:51:43
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I find it incredible how someone like Soltis can write such terrible opening books, but his other books be so good.
  

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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #8 - 06/10/14 at 13:31:54
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Well, Soltis wrote some pretty bad opening books (I presume to pay the rent).  His instructional books are top notch for his intended audience in my opinion, though.  Which reminds me that for a long time I wanted a copy of Turning Advantage into Victory in Chess , but never tracked one down.   

Alright sorry for the off-topic.  I'd be interested in taking a look at Nunn's new course if I could find a copy in a bookstore, though all of this Lasker talk makes me want a copy of Soltis' Why Lasker Matters instead.
  
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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #7 - 06/09/14 at 20:52:53
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As I recall, the shredding/criticizing in question was of a "Win with the Giuoco Piano" type book, and more particularly some analysis of the Møller Attack.
  
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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #6 - 06/09/14 at 20:40:31
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What book was Nunn criticizing in Secrets of Practical Chess?  Maybe The Inner Game of Chess?  I don't really remember a Soltis book covering the same topic as Nunn's in that case.  Unless he was trashing some piece of opening analysis; I seem to remember him trashing another author's analysis of the Latvian counter gambit or something like that.  

I completely agree with you regarding Nunn's writing, for what it's worth.  I'd like to read him, but generally can't.  His Secrets of Grandmaster Chess is the only partial exception.

It's interesting for me to compare Nunn to other players of roughly the same standard, i.e. Seirawan (who is one of my favorite players and authors).  Nunn seems to think about and approach chess much differently than most other players.  I haven't been able to learn from a book of Nunn's, personally, while I have from Soltis, Seirawan, Dvoretsky, and many others.

YMMV.
  
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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #5 - 06/09/14 at 19:40:58
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I have the book and have been going through it (mirabile dictu). I am reminded of why Nunn is not my favorite author. Nunn's tin ear for language, his uncanny ability to kill all charm in his subject matter, his macho criticism of other authors, his misjudgment of what his audience can digest (there are occasional 36-ply tactical variations and even a 76-ply endgame variation in a book for intermediate players), his failure to distinguish between the computer's observations and his own--all aspects of Nunn's sour objectivity are on display here.

Yet the book is intended as a chess course, and it succeeds. It is full of useful observations and advice, as much of it delivered while criticizing Lasker's play as while explaining it. The game notes, usually relatively free (for Nunn) of long analysis, point out the shifting tactical and positional themes of each battle, and are especially good in emphasizing the intricate connections among the themes, one of the stated purposes of the book. As Nunn points out both the cases which are in conformity with positional rules and the exceptions to those rules, the reader gets a feel for the proper valuation and application of general principles.

Soltis does a far better job than Nunn of evoking the spirit of Lasker's play, making original observations and debunking the Reti myth of Lasker as primarily a psychologist. Soltis makes memorable remarks --Lasker's mistakes were usually less severe than those of his opponents; if Lasker had played bad moves deliberately against the world's best in order to win, he could not have been a 2700 player--he would have been 3000+; Tarrasch, unlike Lasker, lacked the instincts of a coffeehouse player. Nunn doesn't credit Soltis for his groundbreaking work. Instead, Nunn tries to eviscerate Soltis. "[Lasker-Tarrasch, Maehrisch-Ostrau 1923] is another game which [sic.] has been considered little more than a swindle, and it's interesting to see how Soltis and Soloviev jump through all sorts of analytical hoops in order to keep this narrative intact...it's extroardinary how many contortions Soltis goes through to 'prove' that White is not yet winning." Nunn points out that Lasker's success was based on his ability to create deceptive positions that are hard to evaluate correctly,and goes out of his way to show how grandmaster commentators have been misled, partly by Lasker and partly by the momentum of tradition. Yet for all that, Nunn apparently does not see the irony in choosing as the model for an intermediate textbook that player who, out of all those in history, created the most treacherous positions to evaluate.

Also, considering that Nunn chose another Soltis book to shred in Secrets of Practical Chess, one has to wonder whether Nunn has something personal against Soltis.
« Last Edit: 06/10/14 at 17:37:27 by ReneDescartes »  
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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #4 - 05/31/14 at 23:02:32
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Yes, ReneDescartes would be the one to lament the triumph of abstract philosophy over human common sense!  (Excellent post btw!)  Dvoretsky wrote that chess students should study Lasker to learn "how to fight."  D's Analytical Manual contains seven  chapters on "Lasker the Great".  I'd be curious whether Nunn considered Dvoretsky's chapters when commenting in his intro that Lasker is neglected by modern authors.  I have Nunn's book in my hands and I am excited to own the book (though realistically i don't think i'll read it for another 10 years).

Gene,
Your broad request for examples to illustrate Lasker's style is best answered by the books referenced in the OP.  Nunn's book in particular is a treatise in response to your question.
I can also mention Keres' chapter in Art of the Middlegame co-authored with Kotov re: defending difficult positions which discusses the famous Lasker Nimzowitsch example.  Lasker gets a bad position, stabilizes his position, then at moves 29-31, he just sits there askng  how Nimzowitsch intends to win the game.  Keres has good commentary to this game.
  

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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #3 - 05/31/14 at 19:11:00
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. .
ReneDescartes wrote on 05/31/14 at 14:08:54:
You can often tell which side Lasker is playing in a diagram by noting which side looks better optically. Lasker will be playing the side that looks worse and is better.

... 

Above all Lasker ... his first instinct to a claim was to prove that it was overreaching.

...

It was Lasker who first proposed the theory of the coordination of the pieces. He called this assigning "a group value," in addition to the individual value, of pieces or advantages.

Three interesting observations by ReneDescartes. Smiley

Great would be FEN examples of each. Or game names-date citation at move-pair number would be just as good (assuming the games are in Mega Base).

The term 'piece coordination' is thrown around a lot in chess discussions, rarely with any specific definition beyond the obvious (tactical shots in shot puzzles; or generally lots of pieces around the opposing king's weakened castle; or none of my pawns blocking my bishops).
Anything that could make the 'piece coordination' concept a bit more specific is always welcome.

Thanks.

. .
  

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ReneDescartes
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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #2 - 05/31/14 at 14:08:54
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katar wrote on 05/29/14 at 22:03:40:
I did not find a general Lasker discussion at ChessPub and so it would not break my heart if that happened here.


A few random observations of my own:

You can often tell which side Lasker is playing in a diagram by noting which side looks better optically. Lasker will be playing the side that looks worse and is better.

This side of Lasker can also be seen in his conversations with Einstein.  Above all Lasker sought to preserve his independence and freedom of movement, so he resisted systems; his first instinct to a claim was to prove that it was overreaching. This is the overarching theme in Lasker's life. There is something very moving about that for me, because it places him in a line of figures (Goethe, Blake, Wittgenstein) who sought to rescue the  philosophical status of the human world of common sense from the seemingly invincible tendency of science to deprecate our experience as mere subjectivity. Chess is an ideal medium for this.

Einstein, on the other hand, was horrified by chess, and was no doubt thinking of Lasker when he said that chess holds even the strongest mind captive in its bonds.

Lasker may have been as much the grandfather of the Soviet school as Chigorin, but nobody notices this because the Russians are devoted to Chigorin.

It was Lasker who first proposed the theory of the coordination of the pieces. He called this assigning "a group value," in addition to the individual value, of pieces or advantages. This makes sense because Lasker was the author of a still-important theorem in a branch of abstract mathematics called Group Theory, in which the mutual relations of objects (like all polynomials of a certain type) are characterized.

It is now commonplace to see Lasker as the forerunner of Carlsen, but before Colin Crouch (who wrote a book on Lasker and Petrosian) said it no one thought this; everyone saw Carlsen primarily as a positional player.

The tactical and endgame escapes are amazing. His games read like a Van Perlo collection. Did anybody ever have such a good eye for the hidden tactic in defense?

--anyway, maybe this will help realize Katar's idea.
« Last Edit: 06/01/14 at 13:52:26 by ReneDescartes »  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
Reply #1 - 05/30/14 at 00:51:12
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Yeah, I want it, despite the fact that Nunn is not my favorite author. The Soltis book is really good.
  
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Lasker! and Nunn's Chess Course (2014)
05/29/14 at 22:03:40
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The new Nunn book looks terrific!  Any reviews yet?  Also, I did not find a general Lasker discussion at ChessPub and so it would not break my heart if that happened here.

Here are a few other books by or about Lasker:

Lasker's Manual (& Common Sense in Chess)
St Petersburg 1909
Soltis: Why Lasker Matters
Dvoretsky's Analytical Manual
Lasker by Linder/Linder
Lasker's Games by Fine/Reinfeld
biography by Hannak
How to Defend by Colin Crouch

Also, IM Greg Shahade has produced many dozens of video lectures about Lasker's games at a chess video site that will remain unlinked for now.
  

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