Normal Topic Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes (Read 6832 times)
Stigma
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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #8 - 06/14/15 at 21:51:36
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Btw. There's a welcome trend in this genre towards more and more exercises, which must be a good thing. Doing is more important than "reading and nodding"! 

Dvoretsky's, Hellsten's and Aagaard's books have lots of exercises, and the 4th edition of Reassess at least has more than the 3rd. While classics like Euwe/Kramer, Pachman and Nimzowitsch didn't have any. Of course it's possible to go through them in a "solitaire chess" way, but I doubt a lot of people bother with this if the book isn't explicitly designed for it.
  

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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #7 - 06/14/15 at 21:41:45
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JohnG wrote on 06/14/15 at 18:56:17:

Exactly my thinking. But if you think that the value is in the examples rather than the explanations then you may as well read books with somewhat minimal explanations, such as the anthologies of lightly annotated games I mentioned earlier.


Well, the examples in Euwe/Kramer and Pachman have a fair amount of commentary, but it's all relative – someone like Silman would be even more wordy, Nunn might give much more (and more correct) analysis, and people like Dvoretsky, Kasparov and Stohl might go overboard with both explanations and analysis...

The explanations may not do a large part of the lifting in terms of actual chess improvement, but they can certainly have motivational value - I know that I'm more likely to go trough most or all of a book if I'm enjoying myself in the process. 

And with very sparse annotation I'm always wondering if this was just a conscious didactic choice by the author, or more of a lazy shortcut. There is a point at which annotations become so sparse that a database dump of relevant games would serve just as well.
  

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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #6 - 06/14/15 at 18:56:17
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Stigma wrote on 06/14/15 at 00:59:25:
Btw. I hadn't noticed the "classification mania" JohnG mentions in these books, but I'm not sure it would bother me too much. At least it can't be worse than Pawn Power in Chess, and anyway as a fan of Willy Hendriks' work I believe most of the value is firstly in examples of good play and only secondly in good explanations (though they often present a systematic fairytale picture of chess thinking), but not at all in the abstract classification schemes, which we can happily ignore  Smiley


Exactly my thinking. But if you think that the value is in the examples rather than the explanations then you may as well read books with somewhat minimal explanations, such as the anthologies of lightly annotated games I mentioned earlier.

Jupp53 wrote on 06/14/15 at 13:36:45:
Pawn Power in Chess is simply great. Never had as much fun with a chess book.


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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #5 - 06/14/15 at 13:36:45
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Pawn Power in Chess is simply great. Never had as much fun with a chess book. 

Btw: Euwe is didactically better, Pachman is more work, from what I read from them. But Euwe is more outdated. I should have read it in my youth. Today I would search something more up to date. Chess books are much better these days, except some classics.
  

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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #4 - 06/14/15 at 00:59:25
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I have both sets on my shelf (bought them used except for Euwe/Kramer Part 1, where I instead have the German edition "updated" by Treppner), but haven't studied them yet. I plan to just browse through them quickly to try to identify the stuff in there that I don't know yet (and that's hopefully not too outdated), then study only those parts. There is bound to be redundancy and diminishing returns when you study several of these positional primer-style books. Reassess Your Chess has always been my "bible", but probably for rather random reasons.

If you're only going to read one of them, I would go with Pachman, simply because it was written some 20 years later and is bound to be closer to current understanding (a bit less out of date).

Btw. I hadn't noticed the "classification mania" JohnG mentions in these books, but I'm not sure it would bother me too much. At least it can't be worse than Pawn Power in Chess, and anyway as a fan of Willy Hendriks' work I believe most of the value is firstly in examples of good play and only secondly in good explanations (though they often present a systematic fairytale picture of chess thinking), but not at all in the abstract classification schemes, which we can happily ignore  Smiley
  

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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #3 - 06/13/15 at 19:21:36
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Thanks for the feedback.  I agree that annotated games are a great way to learn positional ideas and I've been through many that you mention.  I enjoy both kinds of books, specific middlegame primers as well as game collections.  I also agree that there are a variety of other good books on this topic.

Rather than getting into a rehash of what already exists in many places on the internet around best books and how to learn strategy or positional play, I'm just hoping someone with reasonable experience with both books could comment on how the target audience ratings of these two might compare.

From reading reviews of both and a short opportunity to glance at the Euwe and Kramer books, I'm thinking the Euwe's books are a bit more advanced, but am hoping someone that has spent more time with them could provide insight.

Regards.
  
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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #2 - 06/13/15 at 18:30:10
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I second what JohnG says.

You waste your time if you study the Euwe & cramer or Pachman books.

In the same category you should instead study Chess strategy for club players by Herman Grooten, understanding chess middlegames by John Nunn or Mastering chess strategy by Johan Hellsten.
  
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Re: Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
Reply #1 - 06/13/15 at 18:14:24
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I am not really answering the question as asked. Sorry about that.

I just want to say that you should consider whether or not you really need to or want to read this type of book in the first place. For some time I believed that it was necessary to read one of these books/series. I tried Nimzo's My System and then Pachman's Modern Chess Strategy (the abridged version of the three volumes you are interested in). I didn't finish either and felt that I was working hard to learn fairly little (much of the work involves wading through tedious categorization, nomenclature, and other pointless stuff).

I really picked up most of these ideas from anthologies of lightly annotated games. For example, Chernev's Logical Chess and Most Instructive Games; Giddins' 50 Essential Chess Lessons; McDonald's Chess: The Art of Logical Thinking; Marovic's Understanding Pawn Play in Chess. These authors also have other books in the same style that I have not read but that are probably just as good.

The nice thing about books of this sort is that they are fun, easy, and quick to read. For example, I went through the Giddins book in a couple of days (though I was already 1800 when I read it). I suspect you get all the same information from these books that you do from those horrible encyclopaedic works, and you never have to learn such tedious things as the 12 types of weak pawns, the 17 varieties of bad bishops, or the 34 phases of a correctly executed kingside attack. At a certain point I get sick of being told that White has a second category good bishop which is actually not a very good piece in the present position (but which still meets the criteria for a second category good bishop), while Black's bishop is a fourth category bad bishop, though quite a good piece in the present position. The naming and classifying of things seems to eclipse actual chess at a certain point in these books and I just don't see the point of it all. 

Sorry for being off-topic and ranting. Hopefully someone else can tell you about the books you really wanted to know about...
  

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Euwe Middlegame 1 and 2 vs. Pachaman 3 volumes
06/13/15 at 13:42:10
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I don't believe I'm a fan of Silman's style so I'm considering either the Euwe and Kramer 2 volume set or Pachman's 3 volume Complete Chess Strategy.  Would you view them as both at at pitched at the same level of reader or is one a bit harder than another?  Any guesses for rating ranges for each series?

Thanks.
  
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