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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why North America not provide playing equipment? (Read 20487 times)
ReneDescartes
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #40 - 07/12/15 at 20:10:19
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The rules talk about contrast and shininess of the pieces, but I've never seen a set rejected. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone try to play with a pink set. If you do have occasion to play in the US, I would advise you to buy the rule book and read it before the tournament to avoid being taken advantage of--more for other issues than for the set.
  
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dfan
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #39 - 07/10/15 at 20:33:01
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RoleyPoley wrote on 07/10/15 at 20:19:17:
What happens if both players insist on using their own sets? is there a set arrangement that determines who is responsible for providing it? i.e the player with white or black pieces?

If both players' sets are equally standard (according to the tournament director - there are guidelines in the rulebook), Black gets to decide.

There are a couple of different levels of standardness. For example, a digital clock that can handle delay is more standard than an analog clock, so if White wanted to play with his digital clock but Black wanted to play with his analog clock, the players would use White's clock.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #38 - 07/10/15 at 20:25:52
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If my memory on the rules is correct, Black chooses the equipment, but there are some subtleties and subrules having to do with this, for example if Black is late, or if Black's equipment is insufficient or lacking compared to Whites, etc. I know I have been White and forced the use of my clock, as my opponents was analog.
  
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RoleyPoley
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #37 - 07/10/15 at 20:19:17
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What happens if both players insist on using their own sets? is there a set arrangement that determines who is responsible for providing it? i.e the player with white or black pieces?

Can someone provide some detail around how this works in practice?

Thanks,
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #36 - 07/10/15 at 10:47:35
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One more thing. Now I see that you specifically said "a hundred people." You only need 50 sets to serve them, not 100. Actually, if every player has to bring their own set, you need twice as many sets in total.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #35 - 07/10/15 at 10:45:25
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GeneM wrote on 07/10/15 at 07:03:04:
It is easier for the Tournament Director if a hundred people each bring one chess set, versus he having to transport and set up 100 sets, probably plastic sets.


I can't think of one tournament of that size where one person does all the work with the chess sets. I think the normal situation in the tournaments I have played is that the arbiters help each other with the sets, and with 200 players (which is the premise for needing 100 sets), I would expect that there is more than one arbiter.

Another point I came to think of is that when all players have to bring their own set, they also have to bring, set up, and pack the sets every round. What I am used to is that the sets are set up before the start, and then they stay there for the rest of the tournament. The players set up the pieces to their original positions after the game, so there is no need to work on that between the rounds. The "hard work" only consists of setting up before the first round, and packing after the last round.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #34 - 07/10/15 at 07:20:02
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It is easier for the arbiter of course, but more work for the hundreds of players was my point. So making it easier for 1 person and more difficult for 300 rather than other way rundt seems counterintuitive.

Like this:



[Image from http://www.chessdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Open-Sants-3.jpg]

If you look at the photo, the whole row to the back everyone has the same shared pieces, board and clock, and also a nametag with plastic holder provided by the organiser.

Now I think that the entry fee is something like 45€ in this tournament: http://www.cotxeres.org/open/. If I plaued in this tournament, and had to buy equipment maybe it would be spending like 150€ (assuming I did not already have the FIDE clock)? 

Also I think that pieces and clock has to be in accordance with FIDE rules, so how to all arbiters check, if everyone brings their own set? Checking each board each round would be hell, and probably much more work than just providing it themselves. 

Another thing is the zero tolerance attendence rule: arriving at the start of each round. What happens if both players arrive right before the start and neither has a set? That seems like a weird pickle.

Also a pickle is what happens with the metal detectors and searches? Following FIDE rules, you would probably have to check everyone's clock bag and piece bag to make sure that there is no mobile phone or electronic helping device inside if you force people to bring the equipment.

But luckily the organisers provide it for everyone. Seems like more organisation for the players to me , at least.
  
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GeneM
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #33 - 07/10/15 at 07:03:04
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I do not share the Original Poster's love of uniformity. I enjoy the variety of chess sets and boards in different rounds of a tournament. I like it when my opponent brings an interesting or high quality wooden set that is different from mine.
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Also, I feel an appreciation for the concept that - "Many hands make light work". It is easier for the Tournament Director if a hundred people each bring one chess set, versus he having to transport and set up 100 sets, probably plastic sets.
.
Chess clocks are a problem, because there is too much variety in how they work.
Long story short, ALL chess clocks that have ever been available kinda suck - compared to how good they could be.
.
My only other lament is that the pairings info is not provided early enough before each round, especially for the second round of a day. This means that BOTH players must lug their chess set and clock to the playing hall.
The standard rule is that the game is played with the Black player's equipment (or Black's choice if White is agreeable). But we do not know who Black is until after we have left our hotel room.
.
CCA organization has implemented automated text messaging of pairings info, but the pairings are not set soon enough (one main problem/cause is White's inherent unfair advantage in chess, which pairings must carefully balance over multiple rounds).
.
  

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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #32 - 07/10/15 at 06:35:12
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I don't have any problem with it.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #31 - 07/08/15 at 08:20:09
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Not even always chess clubs owning sets for tournaments in the UK - there's the odd company who sell chess books/supplies at tournament stalls, and they seem to provide sets, clocks etc for some of the congresses.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #30 - 07/08/15 at 08:16:33
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Well, I don't think many people in Europe buy hundreds of sets just to use in their tournament.

Chess clubs own sets, probably because the members of the first clubs found that more convenient than bringing their own sets there every week, and it became the custom.

Tournaments are usually organized by those same 
clubs, or they can borrow material from them.

Where chess clubs are rare and tournaments are usually run by private individuals, you get other customs.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #29 - 07/08/15 at 03:08:24
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If the CCA thought that buying 5-600 sets and clocks for the world open would increase participation enough to offset the cost, than I am sure that I would do so. There is nothing moral about it, and it has nothing to do with relative poverty or lack thereof of the US.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #28 - 07/08/15 at 01:32:57
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Well I can kind of see how this is impossible in poorer countries. Places like Cambodia, Bolivia, Georgia, Angola, Guatemala, I doubt that most can afford all equipment to buy and bring to tournaments.

Even then, if this were happen in Denmark, Norway, or France, I somehow doubt that people would want to do it, regardless even if the entry fee costs less. It would be a matter of principle.

The entry fee + flight + hotel and add to that the equipment (especially if it needs replacement) must be quite cumbersome for those who are low income in North America too, though?
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #27 - 07/07/15 at 22:50:01
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/07/15 at 21:55:00:

Money cannot possibly be the problem.


I suspect it is. Both the USCF and the Canadian Federation are or were businesses in their own right. So they had an incentive to sell chess equipment. Rules or conventions that require every new player to buy a board, set and clock are good for turnover. Couple that with rules that make membership of the national federation, even for visitors, compulsory for participation and the money just flows in. Or at least it does until the disincentives to new players cut out growth and lead to contraction.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #26 - 07/07/15 at 21:55:00
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To me what makes sense to USA and Canada (if this is case with Canada as well) is to regulate all tournaments and force the organinser to provide DGT clocks, same boards, same pieces, for everyone, like we do in Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania, and Latin America. No one can bring faulty clocks on purpose this way, weird pieces, green squared-boards, and stuff like that.

Money cannot possibly be the problem.



[image from ChessBase]

Is it really that difficult to have the tournament look something like this for everyone?
  
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