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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why North America not provide playing equipment? (Read 20497 times)
DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #10 - 07/03/15 at 18:47:23
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I had a friend who played once in North America, and he did not know that equipment was not provided because he is used to Europe. So what he did was that he had to ask people to borrow their sets and clocks, if opponent had none, in some cases. He did this because he had to wait a few minutes before opponent arrived (apparently there is no zero tolerance rules there?), so either that or he had to ask people for set and clock. I found that rather weird. 

But I mean that, I am sure that North American countries can afford it. If poorer countries like Zimbabwe, Burma, Cambodia, Guatemala, Suriname, all provide equipment like Europe, I am not sure cost is the problem?

Or another samelikening: Greece have 200€ milliards in debt, yet still in their tournaments provide equipment.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #9 - 07/03/15 at 18:22:29
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brabo wrote on 07/03/15 at 17:27:48:
[quote author=64535C4553585253360 link=1435897486/7#7 date=1435942633]  Entry fee is 1000 $ which clearly has nothing to do with the service you get as player.


Clearly it doesn't. A thousand dollars for entry and they expect players to lug their own equipment to the tournament. That might include a transatlantic flight.

Probably the critical difference is that in Europe, almost everyone is a member of a club and thus the chess equipment is owned collectively. But outside of Ireland, you can travel light. Just a pen needed. If it's in a hotel sometimes even that is provided.


  
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brabo
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #8 - 07/03/15 at 17:27:48
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/03/15 at 16:57:13:
I know players in Europe who I am sure that if equipment is not provided, they would not even think of participating.

That is nonsense. I know several European chessplayers playing now and then in North America and they don't make any objection to bring their own equipment. You just adapt yourself to the local culture. 

DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/03/15 at 16:57:13:

So what I mean is that you pay like maybe 40€ for a entrance fee. 

A tournament like Millionaire chess: http://en.chessbase.com/post/1-000-000-open-tournament-announced only works in America. Entry fee is 1000 $ which clearly has nothing to do with the service you get as player.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #7 - 07/03/15 at 16:57:13
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It is fairly common in everywhere to not own a set (at least to bring to a tournament). Everywhere in Europe, like big countries France and Germany, or in South America, like Brazil and Argentina, or Asia, like China and Indonesia, everyone expects the tournament organiser and arbiters to provide sets and clocks. It is just the way that it is everywhere, not sure if FIDE rules? But I heard that big opens in North America still have none of these rules. It does not matter the population, I know players in Europe who I am sure that if equipment is not provided, they would not even think of participating.

Like I was looking at the really big opens in Europe, til example, Sants in Barcelona:

http://www.cotxeres.org/open/

If look at a video of the tournament:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBYDfy-k4Tk

Notice how players are provided each, same chess set, pieces, FIDE clock, scoresheets, as well as name placard (like you get at work in office). 

So what I mean is that you pay like maybe 40€ for a entrance fee. Then you go into the tournament with pairings already known for a one round a day style. There are two scoresheets that are placed on top of the board before the game, by the arbiter. The clock is already turned on and set to the time control, and pieces are already set. You basically only walk into the tournament hall with a writing pen.

  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #6 - 07/03/15 at 16:23:26
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I can obviously understand that for someone in an area where they have no one to study or play with, they might not own a set. But at least to me, that seems like an exception rather than the norm.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #5 - 07/03/15 at 16:16:11
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/03/15 at 04:24:46:
I notice something that perhaps I am not understanding well. I notice that in North America, unlike not only Europe, but Asia, Oceania, Africa, and Latin America, almost never provide chess equipment in tournaments, even very big, important ones. Why is this?


Bizarrely in Ireland too, it had become the custom not to supply the equipment. That's changing as organisers wanting to use increment timing have to provide the means to do so. 


  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #4 - 07/03/15 at 14:57:58
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TonyRo wrote on 07/03/15 at 14:44:29:
Why is it an extra expense? You don't own a set and a clock anyways?

I am FM, playing more than 20 years chess and still don't have a clock. Tournament organizers provide them for the games and at home I had nobody to play against. I only bought 2 years ago my very first chess-set because my son wanted to learn chess. At home all my chess related work/ play is done on computers.

  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #3 - 07/03/15 at 14:44:29
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Why is it an extra expense? You don't own a set and a clock anyways?
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #2 - 07/03/15 at 14:28:01
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/03/15 at 04:24:46:
I heard some tournaments in North America cost 200€?? then you add this to the clock, board, and pieces?

Note that you don't have to buy a new clock, board, and set of pieces for every tournament; you're allowed to just buy them once and reuse them.

You can buy a US-tournament-quality board and set of pieces for well under $20 (whether you think that playing with plastic pieces and a vinyl board is acceptable is another matter, but they're standard in US tournaments) and the cheapest reasonable digital clock seems to be about $40. It is definitely an investment, but it's not huge compared to other costs like tournament entry fees and a USCF membership.
  
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Re: Why North America not provide playing equipment?
Reply #1 - 07/03/15 at 07:23:35
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I believe USCF is still the only organisation in the world which uses rules prevailing Fide. USCF never bent for Fide and Fide never dared to exclude USCF.

I mention this just to show how USCF always was very independent. Not providing equipment is just one of the many deviations which we see.

I agree that it would be easier to have everywhere the same rules and conditions. On the other hand I notice USCF is often much more practical.

People are very often late subscribing to tournaments and for organizers it is very difficult to afford sufficient equipment for an undefined number of players. 
By letting people play with their favorite equipment, beginners will quicker start in a tournament.
People are also more responsible for the equipment if it belongs to them. I've known tournaments in which several sets and clocks were stolen.

So I don't think there is a clear good or bad choice. Respect and accept different cultures.
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Why North America not provide playing equipment?
07/03/15 at 04:24:46
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I notice something that perhaps I am not understanding well. I notice that in North America, unlike not only Europe, but Asia, Oceania, Africa, and Latin America, almost never provide chess equipment in tournaments, even very big, important ones. Why is this? We all provide clocks (always DGT/FIDE clock), boards, pieces, scoresheets, so that no one has a different set, and so no one has to bring a heavy bag full of chess pieces, clock, set the clock, set the board, wrap it back up, and so. 

But my friends in North America say that it is normal that no one provides nothing, and has to bring everyone their sets and clocks. Why less rich countries like Cuba, Nicaragua, Argentina, Vietnam, all provide sets and equipment, and North America do not? Although I think that Canada sometimes do (if you are Canadian, you know the situaton better). In any case, it cannot be possible that the cost is too much if poorer countries can easily afford all of the equipment, at least in mine eyes.

Is it not dear to afford for the players? In Europe, also in Latin America, entry fee average is maybe around 40-50€ maximum, no more. I heard some tournaments in North America cost 200€?? then you add this to the clock, board, and pieces?
  
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