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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What to Expect from Chess Coaches (Read 12136 times)
Jupp53
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #20 - 07/28/15 at 17:36:13
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If he can he's a real magician. Why working as a coach then?
  

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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #19 - 07/28/15 at 09:51:50
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Or if he can, maybe it's not his best business interest to do it anyway  Grin
  

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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #18 - 07/27/15 at 21:20:12
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A coach can't give an assessment of the potential. Think about it.
  

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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #17 - 07/27/15 at 14:08:18
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To start of with, I think it's important that a coach gives you a fair and objective assesment of your potential. Based on his experience climbing the chess ladder, your age, life situation, ... . Nothing more pointless than working hard while fooling ourselves all along.

I also expect moral support from my coach. I believe it's vital, since the journey to become a better player is mentally and emotionally very tough. Especially in my case, because chess is something that my close environment (family and friends) can't/don't relate to. 

  
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #16 - 07/27/15 at 12:54:39
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Since some years I have lessons from the same trainer.

What do I expect?
- Getting a better understanding at chess.
- Getting hints where to work on.
- Getting stronger.
- A respectful personal relationsship.

Getting stronger is hindered by health problems. As I need an O2 concentrator since two weeks I will have to adapt to the new circumstances and see if there's still a way to perform better in otb games.

What did I get?
- A better look at the importance of every single tempo.
- A better look of strength and weaknesses of the pieces and some pawn structures.
- A personal insight in the thinking process of a stronger GM.
- Feedback of my weaknesses.
- A lot of fun and motivation to work on my chess.

The method of my trainer was starting with the thinking process, telling me to work with Blokh's book, analyzing my latest otb games. 

As I do this for four years now I sometimes thought about taking some lessons from another trainer. But I always rejected this, mainly because he gives me enough input to work on it. I cannot judge if this is the most effective way. But as it is fun and steadily at the frontier of my comfort zone it feels more than just o.k.
  

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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #15 - 07/27/15 at 00:20:11
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TonyRo wrote on 07/26/15 at 18:46:08:
Returning to the discussion at hand, I do have a few more things to say about online coaching, and what makes a good coach:

1. They should show up prepared - if you want to analyze your games that's totally cool, and I think it's very helpful, but if not, I think a good coach will show up ready with enough prepared material to fill the lesson, and hopefully that material will be related to some skill in which you're lacking.

2. Related to the above, that coach should try his best to ascertain your current level, and strong and weak points. Whether that be through games against each other, perusing your tournament games, testing out your abilities in some kind of an assessment, or just figuring it out over the course of a few lessons. I have tried out quite a few online coaches, and I get the sense that some regurgitate the same lessons to all of their students, regardless of rating levels or specific skills.

3. They should be assigning meaningful homework. After all, you're only together for 1-4 hours on month on average - providing more work is only upside!

4. It's helpful if that coach has experience or analysis on a wide variety of opening systems. Being able to quickly get students into openings that suit their play or help them improve is important, and again, being able to provide material that students can use in their own time is HUGE.


This is ALL very true!  I am a music teacher and I can't teach unless I FIRST assess where each individual student needs at that moment in time!  Then we go forward.

With that in my mind I am looking for a chess teacher in the next month or so but I know exactly what I want from the lesson so that will give me a better chance of finding the right one.  I don't want regular lessons.   I want the teacher to look at my recent games, asses my strengths and weakness from those games and then in the lesson discuss what I should do to address those weaknesses.  And a list of players that the coach thinks I should really study based on my strengths and weaknesses. And maybe give me some hints on what openings would suite my playing level and "style" or if that doesn't matter.

So I have specific goals for the lesson when I start looking for a coach and then after the first lesson I won't need to see them for a few months.
  
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #14 - 07/26/15 at 21:06:20
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I am offering online lessons myself, so I have some experience on the subject. Every teacher has their own take on the approach I guess. I tend to focus my lessons a lot on matters where human input from an experienced player/teacher is the most helpful. I do a lot of middlegame/endgame strategy for example. Doing tactically focused things is helpful for the student, but can also be done without the help of the teacher in the actual lesson. I give out as much homework as the student feels realistic to manage until the next meeting. I also advise all students to do daily tactics, completely on their own. I can't provide much additional benefit there so I don't do it in the lessons.

I think one importantant thing is chemestry between student/teacher and inspiration as Tony said above. Some Coach might be good with one student and not as good with another. Just trying out different ones is probably a good idea and see who you like.
« Last Edit: 07/27/15 at 03:54:40 by Chessexplained »  
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TonyRo
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #13 - 07/26/15 at 20:16:25
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brabo wrote on 07/26/15 at 19:04:12:
TonyRo wrote on 07/26/15 at 18:39:49:
but what about age? He's 65.

In my club somebody achieved the IM-title at age 67: https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=200050
This year he also won the European championship of + 65 in front of 4 experienced grandmasters: http://escc2015.chessdom.com/results-and-standings/
It is not because you are becoming old that you can't play chess anymore.

I can find an outlier in almost any field for any reason - it would be somewhat foolhardy to say that at 60+ people's chess doesn't degrade, on average. I have clubs full of evidence to my point in my home city. But we are veering off course regardless. 

Wink
  
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #12 - 07/26/15 at 19:11:33
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Back to the original question, I've tried a couple of chess coaches myself, and I find it difficult to find the perfect match. However, as you're paying for a service, and as there are plenty of coahces available, I think it's your right (and consumer duty !) to quickly drop a coach if you feel he is missing something important.

I think TonyRo and ErictheRed have already said a lot of important things. I would add that feeling emotionally comfortable with the coach is probably important too, but it depends on your personality, obviously.

The coach should definitely provide some personalized feedback that 'talk to you' in some way. If they don't, you're probably better served with a book  Smiley

Edit : there are also some mixed formulas, such as GM Nigel Davies' offering on his website Tigerchess. He offers a detailed study plan for a modest subscription fee, and short game analysis are included in the price too. If you wish, you can also book individual lessons as a supplement. I find his material has good value for people in the intermediate range.
  

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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #11 - 07/26/15 at 19:04:12
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TonyRo wrote on 07/26/15 at 18:39:49:
but what about age? He's 65.

In my club somebody achieved the IM-title at age 67: https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=200050
This year he also won the European championship of + 65 in front of 4 experienced grandmasters: http://escc2015.chessdom.com/results-and-standings/
It is not because you are becoming old that you can't play chess anymore.
  
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #10 - 07/26/15 at 18:46:08
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Returning to the discussion at hand, I do have a few more things to say about online coaching, and what makes a good coach:

1. They should show up prepared - if you want to analyze your games that's totally cool, and I think it's very helpful, but if not, I think a good coach will show up ready with enough prepared material to fill the lesson, and hopefully that material will be related to some skill in which you're lacking.

2. Related to the above, that coach should try his best to ascertain your current level, and strong and weak points. Whether that be through games against each other, perusing your tournament games, testing out your abilities in some kind of an assessment, or just figuring it out over the course of a few lessons. I have tried out quite a few online coaches, and I get the sense that some regurgitate the same lessons to all of their students, regardless of rating levels or specific skills.

3. They should be assigning meaningful homework. After all, you're only together for 1-4 hours on month on average - providing more work is only upside!

4. It's helpful if that coach has experience or analysis on a wide variety of opening systems. Being able to quickly get students into openings that suit their play or help them improve is important, and again, being able to provide material that students can use in their own time is HUGE.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #9 - 07/26/15 at 18:39:49
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You may be right, it was an estimate - he's rated around 2200 USCF, and hasn't played a rated game since 1998, and it was G15. He maintains a blitz rating on ICC of 1800, and achieved his high there in 1997. He only plays unrated games against a 1600-rated computer there now. You might only drop 200 points due to inactivity, but what about age? He's 65.

No disrespect to him - I own one or two of his books and have enjoyed some of his articles online, I think he has some good things to say. And you won't certainly won't hear me say lower rated players cannot help your game or produce educational content - that'd be the height of hypocrisy. But I've also heard that his online, real-time lessons are sort of a cash grab.
  
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #8 - 07/26/15 at 18:33:01
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brabo wrote on 07/26/15 at 17:32:14:
TonyRo wrote on 07/26/15 at 16:15:45:

Realistically, he's probably around 1800 strength now. 


That is just nonsense. You maybe lose temporarily 100-200 points maximum by being inactive but surely not more. His fiderating is almost 2300.

I also want to add that I've known several players having a much greater knowledge/ coaching capabilities than many stronger players. I regularly play against players having a very limited knowledge but tactically are monsters. Just one example: a former women worldchampion wasn't able to give mate with knight and bishop.


Well, his FIDE rating is from like 25 years ago, so it probably doesn't equate with 2300 strength of today. It's not like he has stopped for 2-3 years only.

Anyway, I had one lesson with him and I don't think he is a good coach. The fact that he analyzes with an engine is already a big no-no. I would expect a good coach to share his thought process so that the student can pick relevant human patterns/ideas.
  

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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #7 - 07/26/15 at 17:32:14
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TonyRo wrote on 07/26/15 at 16:15:45:

Realistically, he's probably around 1800 strength now. 


That is just nonsense. You maybe lose temporarily 100-200 points maximum by being inactive but surely not more. His fiderating is almost 2300.

I also want to add that I've known several players having a much greater knowledge/ coaching capabilities than many stronger players. I regularly play against players having a very limited knowledge but tactically are monsters. Just one example: a former women worldchampion wasn't able to give mate with knight and bishop.
  
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Re: What to Expect from Chess Coaches
Reply #6 - 07/26/15 at 17:25:52
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I believe a recent article from the famous coach Silman: http://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-lessons-exposed-part-one
is relevant for this thread.

Click on his name to find many more interesting articles from him.
  
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