Normal Topic 2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win? (Read 4777 times)
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2342
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: 2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win?
Reply #6 - 09/27/15 at 04:57:43
Post Tools
Well, the thing about bishops is that they are long range. That's the supposed advantage, yes? 
So, fighting two fronts, a 'pawns over there, pawns over here' situation looks good for the bishops.
The more narrowed the fighting front, the less the power.
Well, at least as I understand it.
Thus all on one side, as there, I would think the knights are okay.
But that's really tentative commentary, I am very willing to disagree with people much better than me (likely not too difficult), who know more, and know more concretely.

I may have been too heavily influenced by this book, lots of great knight play by Moro:
https://www.newinchess.com/The_Chigorin_Defence_According_to_Morozevich-p-382.ht...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GeneM
Senior Member
****
Offline


Tournament winner gets
two fun filled knights!

Posts: 303
Location: near Seattle WA USA
Joined: 01/12/08
Re: 2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win?
Reply #5 - 09/27/15 at 03:29:07
Post Tools
Jaap Amesz wrote on 09/18/15 at 10:27:00:
... I had the 2 bishops against 2 knights. Stockfish gave me +1, but I fail to find a winning plan.

Too bad your question requires no pawns before I can apply my new endgame tablebases to it (limit is 6 pieces, including kings of course).

Without pawns it would not be an interesting question.
However,...

I recently sparred against Fritz from a legal pawnless position where each color had all of its officers except a B or N.

Fritz showed me there is a whole world of chess tactics that I had never personally experienced nor even seen before. After a few brief turns I was already lacking mobility due to threats and the burden of defense.
.
  

GeneM , CastleLong.com , FRC-chess960
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
hicetnunc
Full Member
***
Offline


"Do something scary every
day"

Posts: 237
Location: Paris, France
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: 2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win?
Reply #4 - 09/18/15 at 12:05:39
Post Tools
The only things I know are : with bishops, push your pawns, with Knight, fix the pawn structure, so it may be that 40...f5 is a big practical mistake.
  

48 yo, 1920 elo
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: 2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win?
Reply #3 - 09/18/15 at 12:03:16
Post Tools
There might not even be anything 'real' here (I don't know). The bishop pair is hugely better when there's action on two sides/ideally outside passed pawn(s) and d4 is a very nice outpost of course.

Not that that's relevant, as you're playing practical chess Smiley One of the nice things about 'seeing what white does' is that they've got to find sane moves to play!

Get, and keep, someone in a relatively passive position and it gets incredibly hard for them to do, and keep doing, that. If nothing else it simply isn't any fun.

Not at all sure you ever want to strand that bishop on b2. Keep the threat of going in there alive, yes, but also keep it flexible to help on the kingside? More for white to worry about.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jaap Amesz
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2
Joined: 09/18/15
Re: 2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win?
Reply #2 - 09/18/15 at 11:16:24
Post Tools
Yes, good advice. I spend to much time on finding nothing. Maybe just playing the kingside pawn up, saving time, wait to see what white does, and then investing time on a more relevant juncture.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: 2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win?
Reply #1 - 09/18/15 at 11:13:35
Post Tools
I haven't engine checked the game or anything but I'd imagine grabbing as much space as possible on the kingside would be key to converting Black's advantage in an actual game. So I would play ...f5, ...g5, ...h5 and ...f4 and try to create additional weaknesses. In such positions it doesn't really help to approach the position from the perspective of 'how do I win' - the emphasis should be on accumulating and transforming advantages and calculating thoroughly when the position takes on a more concrete character.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jaap Amesz
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2
Joined: 09/18/15
2 bishops versus 2 knights endgame; how to win?
09/18/15 at 10:27:00
Post Tools
Hi,

I've had an interesting endgame where I had the 2 bishops against 2 knights. Stockfish gave me +1, but I fail to find a winning plan. Can you help?

Kind regards,

Jaap Amesz from The Netherlands

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo