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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Opening repertoire advice (Read 20767 times)
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #25 - 02/17/16 at 01:24:21
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barnaby wrote on 02/15/16 at 16:26:35:
^^ I agree.  Difference is the Dragon tends to be more forcing and strategy is more clear-cut and less nuanced than Najdorf.

People that like eating the same meal over and over at the same restaurant might tend to like the Dragon more.

Wink


I think this comment is on point.  Both Black and White have fewer options in the Dragon.  This can be a plus or a minus depending on a player's competitive and aesthetic preferences.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #24 - 02/17/16 at 00:29:53
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Of course stats can be more than a bit misleading in the opening. This is especially true if a new improvement overturns an old assessment. Looking at the Chessbase online database, 5...Bd7 scores 48%, ahead of the Najdorf (51%) and the Classical (50%). True, there is a much smaller sample (1859 games), but I am pretty sure it is not objectively the strongest Sicilian. It's important to form your own views and understanding in the opening, since that is what you'll be using in your own games. Stats can be a clue, but it is only a beginning and not an end.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #23 - 02/16/16 at 20:12:13
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go for what you like is the bottom line, dont get caught up in meaningless stats
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #22 - 02/16/16 at 17:33:59
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Methodchess wrote on 02/15/16 at 22:24:40:
RoleyPoley wrote on 02/15/16 at 20:18:11:
No, as Eric said, he should choose the one he connects with more. Him simply choosing the Najdorf because you prefer the stats or what someone else thinks about it doesnt make any sense.


No. Once he stated that he was 50/50 between choosing the Dragon or Najdorf, a rational person would choose the option that would offer them the best results. It would be best for him to at least start with the Najdorf for this reason, if he finds that he doesn't like it, then try the Dragon. Point is following a rational line of reasoning you always start with the option that offers the best predicted results.


Honestly, point is that this was not a very rational line of reasoning.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #21 - 02/16/16 at 11:32:59
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I'll add a point that may be useful for your decision-making:

Many anti-Sic setups for Black when opting for the d6-Sicilians, utilise a K-side fianchetto.
Also, Najdorf is flexible and sometimes you can use Dragon setups (e.g. vs. the 6. f4, 6. Bd3, 6. h3, 6. a4 lines).
There is also the Dragadorf (a6 & g6 or vice versa) which allows you even more transpositional possibilities to the Dragon setup (e.g. also vs. 6. Be2 and especially vs. 6. Be3). This can work the other way round, i.e. play the Dragon and every now and then choose the Dragadorf (usually vs. Be2 or Be3 as well).

imo I find both openings very interesting and to my liking, but for me it all boils down to what barnaby said: Najdorf is richer (which is a good and a bad thing at the same time; bad thing being its learning curve and maintaining your rep). But the differences are not that big, so choose to your liking.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #20 - 02/16/16 at 09:04:15
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Methodchess wrote on 02/15/16 at 22:24:40:
RoleyPoley wrote on 02/15/16 at 20:18:11:
No, as Eric said, he should choose the one he connects with more. Him simply choosing the Najdorf because you prefer the stats or what someone else thinks about it doesnt make any sense.


No. Once he stated that he was 50/50 between choosing the Dragon or Najdorf, a rational person would choose the option that would offer them the best results. It would be best for him to at least start with the Najdorf for this reason, if he finds that he doesn't like it, then try the Dragon. Point is following a rational line of reasoning you always start with the option that offers the best predicted results.



You were already against him using the Dragon before he announced he was 50/50.

The opening that will give you the best results will be one you have more understanding, enjoyment from and/or connection to. If he plays through both openings, he can then decide which he prefers, and play that. He doesnt have to start with Najdorf, thats simply your bias creeping in.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #19 - 02/15/16 at 23:37:47
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Yes, but only if it is a given that you are only interested in optimizing your results. Also only if you knew that the Najdorf was the opening that would give you the best projected results. That may be the case for some abstract idea of a chess player with a playing style that is an average of all possible playing styles, but you might have good reasons to think that in your specific case the dragon will give you better results.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #18 - 02/15/16 at 22:24:40
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RoleyPoley wrote on 02/15/16 at 20:18:11:
No, as Eric said, he should choose the one he connects with more. Him simply choosing the Najdorf because you prefer the stats or what someone else thinks about it doesnt make any sense.


No. Once he stated that he was 50/50 between choosing the Dragon or Najdorf, a rational person would choose the option that would offer them the best results. It would be best for him to at least start with the Najdorf for this reason, if he finds that he doesn't like it, then try the Dragon. Point is following a rational line of reasoning you always start with the option that offers the best predicted results.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #17 - 02/15/16 at 20:18:11
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Methodchess wrote on 02/15/16 at 14:32:18:
ErictheRed wrote on 02/14/16 at 18:19:30:
I'm a very strong believer in playing openings that you, yourself, are interested in and passionate about, the ones that you feel are "yours," that you have some emotional connection and investment in.


I agree with this, but he said he was literally 50/50 between the Dragon and Najdorf, if that's really the case, he should choose the Najdorf. I'm willing to nail my colours to the mast by saying the Dragon, will: never achieve the same amount of respectability as the Najdorf. By respectability I mean hard statistical data, also computer assessment and the consensus of the best chess players that have, or ever will live in the future.

ChevyBanginStyle wrote on 02/15/16 at 07:15:10:
Maybe you could say that roughly

Marshall : Breyer :: Dragon : Najdorf.


Fischer would be spinning in his grave if he knew his beloved Najdorf, was being compared on equal standing to the Dragon.


No, as Eric said, he should choose the one he connects with more. Him simply choosing the Najdorf because you prefer the stats or what someone else thinks about it doesnt make any sense.
  
"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #16 - 02/15/16 at 16:26:35
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^^ I agree.  Difference is the Dragon tends to be more forcing and strategy is more clear-cut and less nuanced than Najdorf.

People that like eating the same meal over and over at the same restaurant might tend to like the Dragon more.

Wink

  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #15 - 02/15/16 at 16:01:26
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Methodchess wrote on 02/15/16 at 14:32:18:
Fischer would be spinning in his grave if he knew his beloved Najdorf, was being compared on equal standing to the Dragon. 
                   


Carlsen didn't think the Dragon was so bad, Kasparov used it in a world championship match, and a topical line bears Topalov's name. It's a mainstream opening that has a right to exist. Even if you think the Yugoslav outright refutes the Dragon (IMO an extreme view in modern chess), it represents a standard Sicilian structure that is certainly viable through other move orders (e.g. the Classical move order I mentioned earlier).

BTW I was likening the Dragon to the Marshall in the above analogy in terms of character of play (straightforward rapid development, stock attacks on the king, forcing play, standard endgames to defend a draw after certain forcing sequences).
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #14 - 02/15/16 at 14:32:18
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ErictheRed wrote on 02/14/16 at 18:19:30:
I'm a very strong believer in playing openings that you, yourself, are interested in and passionate about, the ones that you feel are "yours," that you have some emotional connection and investment in.


I agree with this, but he said he was literally 50/50 between the Dragon and Najdorf, if that's really the case, he should choose the Najdorf. I'm willing to nail my colours to the mast by saying the Dragon, will: never achieve the same amount of respectability as the Najdorf. By respectability I mean hard statistical data, also computer assessment and the consensus of the best chess players that have, or ever will live in the future.

ChevyBanginStyle wrote on 02/15/16 at 07:15:10:
Maybe you could say that roughly

Marshall : Breyer :: Dragon : Najdorf.


Fischer would be spinning in his grave if he knew his beloved Najdorf, was being compared on equal standing to the Dragon.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #13 - 02/15/16 at 07:15:10
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Maybe you could say that roughly

Marshall : Breyer :: Dragon : Najdorf.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #12 - 02/14/16 at 23:52:57
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Yes, play the one you like better.  But, if it helps, I find the Breyer and the Najdorf/Scheveningen to be somewhat complimentary.  Both are counter-punching defenses where you try to stay solid and flexible until you get your chance.
  
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Re: Opening repertoire advice
Reply #11 - 02/14/16 at 22:35:31
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... or three subvariations, if you count Najdorf, Scheveningen style and Najdorf, e5-style as two.
  
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