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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water (Read 11999 times)
Viking
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #19 - 06/20/16 at 22:40:25
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The quickest intro in my view to get a feel for the the Leningrad variation would be the good but now old book by Steffen Pedersen.
  
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tipau
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #18 - 06/20/16 at 15:10:01
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Vallejo Pons made a series in Spanish for Chess24, based on the Leningrad with 7...c6.

He starts his coverage from 1.d4 f5 and gives some good recommendations as far as I can tell.
  

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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #17 - 06/19/16 at 14:05:37
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Stigma wrote on 06/19/16 at 12:59:55:
don't think I've ever tried to watch any chess DVD for more than an hour in one sitting though


What I like to do when going though a DVD is collect all the games where the variations in the presentation stops and then go through them myself. This means a slower and hopefully more productive run through a DVD, and the method takes a number of sittings. This is why I prefer DVDs linked to Chessbase. For others, I have compiled my own databases of some of them.

Yes, erring does irritate me, but not as much as the presenter having a cold  Roll Eyes

Some presenters errrred a lot in their earlier videos, but got better, so they must have taken steps to improve their talking skills!
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Stigma
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #16 - 06/19/16 at 12:59:55
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A bit surprised to see such a strong reaction to Marin. I prefer his calm presentations in English to those by Tiviakov or Kasimdzhanov, for example.

The recent DVDs I have seen by Marin (Classical Sicilian and Pirc 1+2) also have more detailed analysis files than these DVDs usually do. So he's done some serious work and is willing to share some "secrets". This also means you can go straight to the analysis and skip the (apparently unbearable) videos, and still get a lot out of it.

I don't think I've ever tried to watch any chess DVD for more than an hour in one sitting though - maybe my need for variety has been a blessing in disguise!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #15 - 06/19/16 at 11:31:52
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I gave up on Marin's Classical Sicilian DVD for the same reason. The pausing devices just overtake the actual speech. It's horrific.
Appears a thorough fellow, but is just unwatchable for the reason stated. Would be a worthy replacement for waterboarding, if the CIA are reading this.
  
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #14 - 06/19/16 at 10:29:05
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There is also some old DVD by Andrew Martin, ABC of Leningrad Dutch.
He goes for the pawn to c6 line, a  very solid but rather dull line.
I tried it in a few games when the dvd was new with a good score in team matches.
  
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #13 - 06/19/16 at 10:28:45
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JEH wrote on 06/19/16 at 03:45:21:
Thanks for the pointer to Marin, I hadn't noticed he'd done a DVD on the Leningrad

Marin's insights and observations are, as always, excellent. In spite of this, though, I'm afraid I gave up less than halfway through this DVD as his constant and intrusive 'umming' simply became too much for me to bear. If you can tolerate that for five-and-a-quarter hours, then the DVD is worth getting.
  
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JEH
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #12 - 06/19/16 at 03:45:21
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Thanks for the pointer to Marin, I hadn't noticed he'd done a DVD on the Leningrad  Smiley

My plan, if I go forward with the Leningrad, would be to update theory with electronic sources (online, databases).
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #11 - 06/19/16 at 02:53:39
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Kindermann's book (in English) is the one big hole in my collection of Leningrad books. I already had the slightly shorter German edition (2002), so I didn't bother. But later I heard there were some really important updates between the editions... The instructive material at the start is great through (maybe even that was improved?)

The Beim book has some brief instructive material, basically two games showing typical ways for White and Black to win. But more importantly he has 35 exercises at the end, which of course I have never bothered to solve Smiley. From a brief look and reading of the instructions, most feature tactical or attacking ideas, for both sides - could be useful to go through after digesting Kindermann's material.

Be forewarned about the actual theory though: I noticed an older thread here where Beim was criticized for sloppy analysis, though he does cover some interesting, offbeat lines that are rarely discussed, like 7...c6 but NOT aiming for a quick ...e5.

The fairly new Marin DVD is supposed to be all about themes and understanding as well. But I haven't seen it, so I don't have an opinion.

For theory, apart from Flear's consistently good work here, the last word is the Malaniuk/Marusenko book from 2014. Though I still go back to McDonald's Play the Dutch a lot - I have the (maybe superficial) impression that he was looking more for unbalanced play, while M'n'M are more concerned with safety and equalizing - to the limited extent those terms even apply to the Leningrad!
  

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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #10 - 06/17/16 at 17:50:05
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Bibs wrote on 06/17/16 at 14:20:56:
The Kindermann book is wonderful. Sheer class.


Thanks for all the advice. I have ordered Kindermann.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #9 - 06/17/16 at 14:20:56
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Agree below. The Kindermann book is wonderful. Sheer class.
The guy's got a knack for organization of material and clarity of exposition.
That and Winawer 0-0 (with some red text!) - high quality stuff. Pity he's not produced a load more.
  
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #8 - 06/17/16 at 06:10:40
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katar wrote on 06/17/16 at 04:37:36:
TalJechin wrote on 06/16/16 at 17:45:25:
Neil McDonald is also quite good at pointing out ideas and manoeuvres - he's written several books on the Dutch/Leningrad, maybe his Starting Out book would fit your need best.

Neil McDonald - Play the Dutch is the one to get. 


Wasn't that criticized by some for not including 7.....Qe8 line?
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #7 - 06/17/16 at 04:37:36
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TalJechin wrote on 06/16/16 at 17:45:25:
Neil McDonald is also quite good at pointing out ideas and manoeuvres - he's written several books on the Dutch/Leningrad, maybe his Starting Out book would fit your need best.

Neil McDonald - Play the Dutch is the one to get.
  

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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #6 - 06/16/16 at 18:51:29
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JEH wrote on 06/16/16 at 14:39:57:
To dip my toe in the water and get a quick rep up and running for a 1900ish player, what book/DVD would you recommend?

Looking also more for idea based material than telephone directories of variations.

I can thoroughly recommend Stefan Kindermann's 'Leningrad System: A Complete Weapon Against 1.d4' (2005). Some of the theory might be a bit out of date, but it has a superb 15-page section at the start in which the author discusses typical themes and ideas, which is possibly the sort of thing you're looking for. I've just checked and it appears still to be widely available. It's a repertoire book, so, in the main line, Kindermann only considers 7...Qe8 (after 1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.0-0 0-0 6.c4 d6 7.Nc3). Black's other important seventh moves are 7...c6 and 7...Nc6, with all three leading to different sorts of play. If you're unsure what you intend to do at that juncture, Moskalenko's 'Diamond Dutch', as mentioned by TalJechin above, might be worth checking out, as he looks at all three options for Black. In my admittedly limited experience with the Leningrad (I've never been brave enough to play it regularly), the main line is what you get most of the time, so your move-seven choice is of no little significance. As you might perhaps surmise from your acquaintance with 'The Perfect Pirc-Modern', Moskalenko's book isn't really aimed at Leningrad neophytes, though, so if you only intend to buy one book, this is probably not the best one to go for.

(edit: TalJechin's second post appeared while I was writing this, so I've inadvertently reiterated some of what he said: apologies).
  
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Re: Leningrad Dutch - dipping toe in the water
Reply #5 - 06/16/16 at 18:31:01
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Don't know how his Starting Out book relates to his other works. But generally it goes with "you're a Dutch player first", i.e. 1...f5, so you will be able to skip some chapters.

If you hold back ...f5 until White has played c4, your biggest decision will be to choose a 7th move in the ML (7...c6/7...Qe8/7...Nc6). Apart from that White has some ideas of Nh3-f4 +d4-d5 or 7.d5 to rule out 7...Nc6 (many White players have a fear of being attacked with 7...Nc6 8.d5 Ne5). Plus a few 1.c4, g3, Bg2 etc which usually transpose with a later d4, but 1 in 5 will stick to the English with d3+e4 or d3+e3, etc. - This paragraph contains 95% of what you will encounter if you wait for c4. Smiley
  
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