BigTy wrote on 11/30/17 at 23:52:12:


Hi BigTy,

I am going to play the Leningrad (or at least the Dutch) same as you (against lower rated foes). I don't like too much the Dutch against 1.c4 and 1.Nf3.

It was said to me that 7...c6 was a little less tactical, more positional. If the Leningrad was my first option it was OK (I tend to be too much a plain player: very very good positionally but with lacking concepts in dynamic and tactical play; I have to practice this) but now I need as messy positions as I can get 

My main source was a book by Oscar de la Riva (Defensa Holandesa Leningrado) by 2001, in Spanish. And now also Prujssers videos on chess24. I have access to Moskalenko's book.

Interesting to see that in 2001, the line 7...Qe8 8.Re1 was considered a sub-line in 2001 but maybe the mail line nowadays.

I will post here somewhat my conclusions to try to discuss some things (I am already studying) XD

Salut,

I am studying the Leningrad right now. To get more dynamic and tactical positions than in my A-repertoire vs 1.d4 (nimzo + QGD). I need it to improve my game in general (advice from my coach).

I am planning to play Qe8 in the main lines, following basically the Roeland Prujssers videos on chess24. How good do you feel are they? Any other interesting sources? Apart from chesspublishing, of course.

Are here anybody playing the Leningrad already? Or everybody changed to other defenses? xDD

thx

Hello.

Sinn wrote on 12/28/16 at 12:13:54:

1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.0-0 0-0 6.c4 d6 7.Nc3 Qe8 8.Re1 e5 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.e4 Nc6
I would also think is OK for black. White has problems finding a truly natural move and it is not obvious that his active tries, e.g. 11.Nd5, are good enough.

In the same position with b3 instead of Re1 white does arguably have a natural move with Ba3, so that is definitely in favour of the move 8.b3, compared to 8.Re1.



What worried me more in the 8...e5 continuation was:
1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.0-0 0-0 6.c4 d6 7.Nc3 Qe8 8.Re1 e5 9.e4
Black essentially faces the same problem as white did in the 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.e4 Nc6 continuation. That is he needs to find a natural move.

There considerable tension in the position after 9.e4 so if black is lucky there is some decent way of simplifying to reach a decent position. For example there is 9...fxe4 and 9...Nxe4, both seemingly natural. They do not look like optimal solutions though.

In terms of developing moves there seems to be only 9...Nc6 (the tense position limits developing options). Then, however, white should not be in the same predicament as after 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.e4 Nc6 because he can resolve the tension in what looks like a fairly favorable way by going 10.d5. Probably this will go in to a sort of Bayonet-KID structure (with differences) and black's psoition looks not so fun imo.

Here are some short lines:


Have a nice day.

Hi.

I remember quitting the 7...Qe8 boat a few years ago. Seemed annoying to be forced to defend against 8.Re1 and 8.Nd5 with any frequency. 

Also I thought there was an iceberg .


Have a nice day.

Hi everyone,

I started to seriously prepare to play the leningrad dutch recently and I wanted to share what I came up with.

For starter I think that 7 ... c6 is probably a good move, maybe a bit less flexible than 7 ... Qe8 but you can definitely play for the win in the spirit of the dutch with it.
But like a lot of people I prefer the complexity of the lines after  7 ... Qe8 8. d5 (it's really interresting how you can play both on the kingside and the queenside in those lines).
I won't delve into theses I think that after a5 black is fine.

8. Re1, 8. Nd5 and 8. b3 (yes b3) caused me more trouble.

To begin with 8. Re1 felt like a refutation (or at least a line you're happy to get a draw against, and I'm never happy with a draw) The lines after 8 ... Qf7 are all very complicated but what annoyed me the most was just this : 8 Re1 Qf7 9. e4 fxe4 10. Nxe4 Nc6 11. d5 Nxe4 12. Rxe4 Ne5 13. Rf4 Nxf3 
14. Rxf3 Qe8 15. Rxf8 



There's no realistic chances for black here.

Then I saw moskalenko advice to play 8... e5 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. e4 Nc6 here 



It seems more dynamic that's sure but the queen on the same line of the rook scared me.

But then I studied the b3 variation I thought black was completely fine in it but in fact.. in a lot of position there is a lot of pressure.  Notably after 8. b3 e5 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. e4 Nc6 11. Nd5 Qd7



I won't delve into the variations but what struck me was that white has played b3 instead of Re1, white will play Ba3 with tempo at one point and white didn't even need Re1 to play e4 ! 

For exemple one line in the Re1 e5 variation goes like that :

Black is Ok here

In the b3 e5 line when you try to do the same :



And you get the bishop pair. 
I just think that having b3 in is far better than having Re1 in and the computer doesn't disagree.

So I think e5 is ok and should replace Qf7 in the Re1 variation.


Concerning 8.b3 I think that preparing e5 with 8...c6 and 9...Na6 is a good idea . When you play e5 after let's say Bb2 Rc1 by white you're completely ok. It's not a premature opening of the position anymore.
So white will play Ba3 to prevent e5 and I think the plan Rb8 followed by b5 is ok here.

Concerning Nd5 I want to say first of all that the analysis by the engines are misleading in the Nb6 lines :



My stockfish 8 had to go on depth 26 to say that white is completely winning lol.
It changes the evaluation of the whole line afterward.

I prefer Nf6 and weirdly the opposite happen there. At first stockfish doesn't like it but after a while the evaluation peter down :




No attack on the kingside no e4 plan no weakness on b7 Even if stockfish didn't like it I would play it.

Well that's all I had to say.