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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why not 1.e4 at the top level? (Read 15314 times)
Keano
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #13 - 03/11/17 at 14:32:53
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Nobody is getting angry Pingudon unless you are.

I am simply pointing out your question is based on a wrong assumption, so therefore both it and the replies also are trying to reply to an untruth.

Here you go 2016-2017 games between 2750+ players :

1.e4  - 196 games
1.d4  - 137 games
1.Nf3 -  67 games
1.c4  -  56 games
1.g3 - 3 games
1.b3 - 1 game

Top players are not running away from 1.e4. The recent evidence is exactly the reverse. They are embracing it more and more.
  
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Pingudon
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #12 - 03/10/17 at 17:41:36
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Some people seem to get angry when you make a question.  FORUM: A website or web page where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings.
  
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Keano
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #11 - 03/10/17 at 00:18:41
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wow indeed, some shocking answers here.

1.e4 is being played all the time at the very top level, so the whole premise and the whole thread seems bizarre and irrelevant.
  
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Pingudon
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #10 - 03/08/17 at 01:10:22
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Wow friends. Thanks a lot for your answers. Very interesting
  
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #9 - 03/08/17 at 00:10:30
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From the recent Sharjah Grand Prix:

32 games began with the move 1 d4.
27 games began with the move 1 e4.
11 games began with the move 1 c4.
10 games began with the move 1 Nf3
and finally, 1 game began with the move 1 b3.

Regarding transpositions between Flank Openings and 1 d4, it broke down as follows:

3 games that began with 1 c4 transposed into 1 d4 in the first few moves; one also eventually reached what I think was a position from a Semi-Tarrasch, although I'm not entirely sure about this. 
Additionally, one 1 c4 game actually reached a 1 e4 line (Panov Caro-Kann via 1 c4 c5).

Via 1 Nf3, 
2 games transposed directly into 1 d4 in the first few moves, here, as well, one game eventually reached a Semi-Tarrasch.
1 game transposed to 1 e4 (1 Nf3 c5 2 e4)

Therefore, depending on how you classify the opening played in a game, you could also see it as:

1 d4: 37
1 e4: 29
1 c4: 7
1 Nf3: 7
1 b3: 1

Whichever way you look at it, it doesn't seem like a whopping difference.
  
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #8 - 03/07/17 at 23:33:48
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kylemeister wrote on 03/07/17 at 23:03:43:
This reminds me of Erwin L'Ami (a "mere" 2600-plusser) being asked last year why he plays 1. d4, even though he became a GM playing 1. e4.  His answer was like, "I don't understand those Sicilians.  It's too sharp for me.  I don't get it."  Asked if he thought Fischer was wrong about the best first move, he said approximately "I think there is more than one truth.  I would never argue with Fischer, of course."



“. . . but the Universe is an awfully big place. There is room enough for an awful lot of people to be right about things and still not agree.”

~ Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #7 - 03/07/17 at 23:03:43
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This reminds me of Erwin L'Ami (a "mere" 2600-plusser) being asked last year why he plays 1. d4, even though he became a GM playing 1. e4.  His answer was like, "I don't understand those Sicilians.  It's too sharp for me.  I don't get it."  Asked if he thought Fischer was wrong about the best first move, he said approximately "I think there is more than one truth.  I would never argue with Fischer, of course."
  
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #6 - 03/07/17 at 22:52:40
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MartinC wrote on 03/07/17 at 14:24:47:
The recent WC presumably doesn't count as top level for some reason? That had a considerable majority of games starting with 1 e4.

Yup - aside from all the points mentioned in this thread, I don't even agree with the premise.

I just went through the last 3 rounds of the latest Tata Steel Masters and counted starting moves:
1.d4: 10x
1.e4: 8x
1.Nf3: 2x
1.b3: 1x

d4 is a *bit* more frequent, but surely e4 is still played plenty?!
  
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #5 - 03/07/17 at 14:58:47
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I play 1. d4 because I don't like starting the game by hanging a pawn.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #4 - 03/07/17 at 14:24:47
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The recent WC presumably doesn't count as top level for some reason? That had a considerable majority of games starting with 1 e4.
  
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #3 - 03/07/17 at 13:57:40
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I think it's (1) because of the Berlin; (2) because it's somewhat more difficult to elude sharp theory, and (3) because the richness in transpositions and strategies that TN mentioned. Also, perhaps, fashion. I don't think it's because of the popularity or fame  of bad openings that are good.
« Last Edit: 03/07/17 at 20:49:09 by ReneDescartes »  
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TN
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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #2 - 03/07/17 at 13:50:34
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Pingudon wrote on 03/06/17 at 23:58:43:
I have noticed that very top players are playing d4, c4, Nf3 and 1.e4 is lagging behind. I wonder... is it to avoid the sicilian? or to avoid the Berlin? Or perhaps because 1.e4 is too risky? What do you think?


It's just a week by week thing - last week d4 was more trendy, this week it's about even again. Next week maybe 1.e4 will be the main line - in the end someone who works all the time on their openings will almost always be ahead of the trend. But such intensive work is only useful if you're already very strong at everything else. 

Anyway, the main reason seems to be the difficulties proving an advantage in the Spanish, although 3.Bc4 has emerged as an equivalent alternative in the last year (and less workload). 

Against 1.d4 your main challenges theoretically speaking are the QGD and Grunfeld, but at the top level you see d4/c4/Nf3 collectively more than e4 because of the move order potential - you can go Nf3/g3/Bg2/c4 against QGD and Grunfeld players to try and move order them out of their preferred system, for example. True, 1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d5  4.cxd5 Nxd5 is also very hard to crack - but at least there's a wide choice for White.
  

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Re: Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
Reply #1 - 03/07/17 at 06:28:28
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Hello.

Mainly because 1.e4 e5 is such a pain to gain anything substantial against. Especially against players who routinely go for Berlins or other solid lines (like probably most top players do at least sometimes these days).

On top of this, at top level you need to have a quite good feel for the Sicilians, know you French variations and have some decent ideas against the Caro-Kann. On some rare occasions you will also face the Pirc, Modern, Philidor, Scandinavian and Alekhine and if the worst should happen and you were to lose a game against any of these other 1...e4 openings you would probably be ridiculed by your strong-GM colleagues Roll Eyes.

Have a nice day.
  
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Pingudon
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Why not 1.e4 at the top level?
03/06/17 at 23:58:43
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I have noticed that very top players are playing d4, c4, Nf3 and 1.e4 is lagging behind. I wonder... is it to avoid the sicilian? or to avoid the Berlin? Or perhaps because 1.e4 is too risky? What do you think?
  
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